OK, Ok we've been thru this a zillion times. Please, one last time, what are the exact, true rules for using the TE? Can it be used for multiple players from the same team in the same deal? Is there any way it can be combined with another salary for a larger salaried player or multiplayer deal? Can it be used in parts, like $3.5 million to one team, $3.5 to a different team, a different deal? Please, just the facts (derision is ok, too -- but the facts only to the questions). Thanks...x...
The Rice-Amaechi TE is worth ~$6.99m. It can not be used to sign FA's (other than SnT's) and it can not be combined with other exceptions like the assigned player exception for a single player. It can be used with other exceptions in the same trade...just not for the same player. Among knowledgeable people (tips hat to aelliott and NIKE), there is a slight disagreement about the mechanics of the TE. I personally feel that only one player (or pick) can be sent out using the TE and it can not be aggregated (aggregated meaning a $5M contract + the TE is not allowed for a single incoming contract of ~$12m). What can be done is to use the assigned player exception to make a deal and then the Rox can take in an add'l ~$6.99m via the TE for a pick. UPDATE: Yes, it can be split. A SnT to Team A for a $5m contract and a future pick to Team B for a $2m contract. Or, if two teams are looking to match salaries in a trade, the Rox can take a contract from each team. Righ now, the TE is on the sidelines because teams like DEN, Utah, ATL, the Clipps and the Spurs have cap space. Once the feeding frenzy has died down and the MLE's have dried up, look for more TE activity.
The assigned player exception (APE) allows over the cap teams to trade contracts which are within 85% (+ 100k). For example, a $10m player has a trade value of $8.5m. A team wanting to trade for this player may do so with a single contract of $8.5m or multiple contracts totalling $8.5m or more. The trade player exception or TE is not allowed to be used (combined) in this part of the trade. However, let's say the $10m player was clearly much better than a single player making $8.5m but not as valuable as the $8.5m player and a player with a $6m contract. The APE would be used for the first part ($10m contract for a $8.5m contract) and the TE and a pick could be sent for the $6m player. Comprende, amigo?
For more possibilities, think "two seperate deals, at the same time, with the same team." For example Wagner, Ollie, Newble and Battie for MoT and TE. This would in fact be Ollie, Wagner and Newble for MoT, and also Battie for the TE. GATER, isn't there a place in the CBA where it clarifies whether or not we can send out a player and the TE for ONE other player? It makes a major difference IMO.
Good example. And again, once the FA money and MLE's start to dry up, more TE doors begin to open up for teams that can't make a deal using the APE. Particularly a SnT making someone BYC. Sane - I've discussed this multiple times with both aelliott and NIKEstrad and we can't seem to come to a conclusion the 3 of us all agree upon (other than it can't be aggregated...$5m + $7m TE does not equal a $12m contract). Further, Larry Coon's examples leave a bit to be desired. I'm late for work but I'll check back in later with another relevant piece of info I have.
So, theoretically - Ollie and Battie for TE or James and Daniels or Battie and Daniels in two TE deals just as examples...yes?
lol yeah same now I get it! Thanks That trade would be great..Wagner, Ollie, Battie..and I'd rather get Eric Williams. I wonder if the Rockets will use it..wait and see
It appears GATER is gone to work, but I can answer your question till he gets back later: - We can take back 8.03M in contracts for the TE alone. I believe we'd have to send at least future consideration, a second round pick, some chope liver just to say "it's not ONLY the TE." So if Ollie and Battie make less than 8.03M, then yes. - James and Daniels, yes. James and Daniels for 2008 conditional second round pick and the TE works just fine. You may not even have to send the second round pick, but it doesn't matter, since it's something so insignificant. One 2nd rounder in 4 or 5 years won't really matter in such a deal. - Again, if Battie and Daniels are combined less than 8.03M, then yes. The TE is 6.99M, so assuming Daniels is 2M (he's more) and Battie is 4.99M (I think he's more), then yes, we can acquire them by splitting the exception. What's more important about what GATER said is us being involved in sign-n-trade scenarios. New York and Chicago will have BYC complications regarding Crawford, we can get in on that, offering up the TE to the team that can only SEND 50% of the incoming contracts, and they can give us a player for the TE. What happens is that the team we send it to then renounces it, and it doesn't seem like they've recieved double of what they sent out anymore. I believe in the Chicago/NY case, we would have to send the TE to Chicago, with NY sending us a player. It would be nice, for example, to do something like: - Swap TE with Kurt Thomas for the purposes of this trade. - Having helped out NY, additionally swap either MoT or Howard with Mutombo.. and Trybanski (if necessary). It would seem a bit uneven, but fact of the matter is they'd probably be short on PF's (they'll send Othella out, Kurt Thomas to us, leaving just Sweetney). We could throw in a future pick to sweeten the deal. It all depends on what NY has once they've agreed a deal with Chicago, but you get the idea. Mutombo would be a nice backup - he has only one year, experience, would be excellent for 15-18 minutes a night. Frank Williams could join Lue and Gaines to platoon the PG spot. They may take one of our PF's off our hands for cheaper players. For example, even a Howard for Frank Williams/Othella Harrington swap would be great for our cap. We just have to hope CD gets creative. Chicago/NY, Cleveland, and any other team over the cap looking to sign-n-trade with BYC complications are great opportunities to dump salary, add some depth, get a pick, whatever. I think with most FA's being snapped up on the first day trades re allowed, we'll soon hear more about our TE.
Thanks. I was most uncertain of the 'slitting' or of getting 'multiple' palyer returns. Yes, I believe lurking could be working well for Rox (and Mavs, too, but that's another story, another thread, another forum).
Good point GATER. The T.E. might not be a big factor until well into August after those teams have spent their money. But I also would guess that one or two of those teams will STILL have cap room that will be unspet this summer (to be saved for next year), particularly Atlanta.
Nope. With trade exceptions, you can accept up to the amount+100K. No 15% rule. And no consideration would necessarily have to be added. GATER- To clarify on the TE+players topic...here's a deal I see to be perfectly legal. You're saying we could not trade Adrian Griffin and Bostjan Nachbar (combined ~$2.3m salary) plus the trade exception and receive a $6.5m player? ----- The trade exception is actually coined "non simultaneous trade" in the actual text. Think of it like a slot- we traded a ~$10m player and received a ~$3.1m player in return. We get 1 year to fill that $6.9m slot in a trade.
I have to agree with Nike here. Griffing + Nachbar + TE for a $6.5M player is perfectly legal. Here's the math: Houston: ------------ Salary out: (this is broken into a non-simultaneous and a simultaneous part from Houston's POV). Non-Simultaneous : We use the TE to acquire a player making $6.5M. This completes the non-simultaneous Rice/Amechi trade. We could have just as easily took back multiple players making an aggregated salary of $6.5M. Simultaneous: Nachbar and Griffin out for a total of $2.3M out. Nothing back in . Teams are always allowed to take back less salary so the simultaneous part is also legal. Other Team ----------------- They send out $6.5M in salary and take back $2.3M in salary. You are always allowed to take back less salary, so the deal works. Note, from the other team's point of view, it is just a single deal, i.e. not broken up into a simultaneous and non-simultaneous part.
You cover the entire salary of the incoming player with the TE. You have not answered the question: Can we package a player + the TE to get another player? i.e. Pike at 3 mils + 7 mil TE for a player at 10 mil? I searched and have not found an example of a team who has actually done it. What I did find was this article in which Popovich said he wanted to use his TE and Steve Smith to get Kobe a while back: http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~clee1750/articles/brand.html
You cover the entire salary of the incoming player with the TE. You have not answered the question: Can we package a player + the TE to get another player? i.e. Pike at 3 mils + 7 mil TE for a player at 10 mil? You can't aggregate a player's salary with the TE. See Gater's post. If that's what you're asking, then the answer is no you can't trade Piatkowske and the TE for a $10M player. What you're describing is "aggregating" salaries. That is different than packaging players with the TE. That's the distinction that Jonathan Feigan keeps missing in the Chronicle.
