Republicans On Education

Standing Ovation!

If the Republicans really want to impress me, they would take that bazillion surplus and invest every cent of it on the educational system.

I don't understand why these political idiots in Washington don't see this.

Take the money, spend it on rebuilding public schools in the inner city or anywhere there is a need, then with the gazillion you still have left, you revamp the educational standard by hiring better and more qualified teachers. With the billions you have left after that, you go and give the freakin teachers a raise so they get paid just as much as doctors. With the millions you have after that, you go and spend it on books that actually have pages to turn. And with the money left over, you make sure that every damn person in this country can go to college, any college, FOR FREE. And yes, all that freakin money they got from my taxes and the surplus is enough. If they can spend about 600 BILLION on a freakin plane that disappears at night so that Iraq can't tell when we are going to kick their ass(as if they could stop it if they knew), then they can spend it on my kid and everyones kid so that they can give back to the society.

Ok, you can take the surplus and spend it on Medicare or a health system or these other matters that are important, don't get me wrong.

But the basis of a society is its educational system. You educate children, they become productive adults. You get the scientists, doctors, lawyers, inventors and the such that will continue to solve problems, create new inventions, enforce the law, interpret it, etc. The standard of living will continue to increase and crime will actually go down. Then, when everyone is working and the country is 10 times richer, your dumb asses can go and tax us some more to then go and spend it on whatever you want. BUT FIX THIS FIRST.**

**I would just like to say that I am not, nor do I intend to, run for office. As you can see by my opinions on this post and the others, I would probably be assasinated while watching Mission Impossible 12 in 2020.

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I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan

 

I'm fairly conservative, although I don't call myself a Republican. I could NEVER be called a Democrat. I'm pretty much disgusted by America's two party politcal system.

Anyway Jeff, two cents from a conservative who thinks education in America, and specifically how much it needs to be improved, is one of the most important issues on the politcal front today: NEVER, EVER, use a catch phrase like "re-distribute the wealth" and expect to win friends and influence people. Tell me that all students will have the same amount of public funds available for their education and you'll never hear me complain. Tell me you're gonna re-distribute wealth, and I'll dismiss you and your ideas as Socialist. (even if you are one, you're arguments might go further if you disguise that fact)

Anyway, just my $.02

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stop posting my damn signature

 

Bravo, Jeff. I believe you hit the nail on the head on this one. Education is the key to a future, and a high-grade education must be provided to all children, not just those whose parents can obtain vouchers or can afford to send their kids to private school.

One thing that also bothers me regarding this convention is how inclusive the Republican party is trying to portray itself to be. How Gov. Bush, as president, will be sensitive to minority groups and their issues.

If he is so sensitive, how come he couldn't get a hate crimes bill passed in the Texas Legislature after James Byrd Jr. was dragged to death in Jasper? Compassionate conservatism, indeed.

Even some of the Texas delegates removed their hats and turned their heads in protest when the only openly gay man in Congress, Rep. Jim Kolbe from Arizona, gave a speech on free trade of all things! Sounds like the same old Republican party to me...

I can't wait for the Democratic convention so I can see what lies & falsehoods they bring out to counter the lies & falsehoods from the Republican convention.

Pass the remote. Wish I had ESPN Classic.

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Bring It!!

 

Almu wrote...

"If the Republicans really want to impress me, they would take that bazillion surplus and invest every cent of it on the educational system.

I don't understand why these political idiots in Washington don't see this."

Its very simple Almu...It doesn't put money in their pockets. Thats why they don't "see" it.


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Actually vouchers have been a unifying force among Republicans and the inner-city. It has worked where it's been tested and those polled in the inner-city overwhelmingly want the opportunity to send their kids to better schools. Vouchers are not being used just on white kids...in fact, where they've been tested so far they're only granted to those in lower-income brackets...so I'm not sure what you're talking about, Jeff. However, I do feel that parents should ultimately have the choice as to where their children are taught, no matter what income bracket they're from. And if they're paying that tax money, they're every bit as entitled to it as anyone else. I think it's a creative solution to the problem...it beats the hell out of the old liberal, "just throw money at it" solution that has failed for 40 years now. However, I will note that George Bush's plans for federal contributions to education look very much like a democrat's. Are all of you educated as to how much money he wants to pump into education? It's overwhelming..it may not be the case anymore (because Gore is so reactionary) but at one time it was more than Gore was proposing. I'm just surprised that anyone would be complaining about George Bush's plans to spend on education. He spent a ton here in Texas, including the largest teacher pay raise in the history of the state...huh...a Republican legislature and a Republican governor gave out the largest teacher pay raise in the state's history...I thought they were mean and insensitive and didn't care anything about kids??

As for the hate crime stuff...give me a break!! James Byrd's killers were sent to death row, exactly where they belong! Hate crime legislation enhances a person's criminal sentence based on the thoughts in their head...based on hate. Last time I checked, the government couldn't put you in jail for thought. They can however put you in jail for murdering someone or beating someone. The action should be punished..the thought shouldn't. Funny how when the murderous act is of racism, we should show sympathy to the victim...but when a man is put to death by the state for murdering and raping women, the liberals all come out in support of the one to be put to death.

I find it nothing short of laughable that you guys have bought into the liberal spin that Republicans are mean and don't care about kids. Do you people honestly believe that??? You honestly believe that Al Gore cares more about you?? Or that Bill "me, myself and I" Clinton cares more about you?? I'm not saying these men don't care at all..but they certainly have a vested interest in you believing that the Republicans don't care.



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How about holding teachers accountable for failing students and getting parents involved in helping their own kids. The education level of the children has increased greatly in Texas, especially the minorities. If you give local control over the school system and leave the feds out of it. Things would be much better.

Redistribution of the wealth?!? The money that I earn by my hard work should not be taken to be given to someone who doesn't work, especially if they can work.

Maybe the republicans and democrates have failed in the past but Gov Bush must be doing something right.

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Houston Rockets Forever!!
In Rudy We Trust

 

Vouchers have always been a near-sighted, stupid idea.

In additiona to the obvious implications Jeff brought up about religious private schools, etc, It is just not very practical on a broad level.

The goverment will decide (on state/city levels) who gets to go to "good" schools, and who gets left behind? The goverment provides discounts to everyone? More private schools would have to be built.

To me (and I know this is a really dumb, impractical idea) it seems better to keep the students where they are, but improve the schools themselves.

While my old high school was not inner city, it was predominately black (followed by hispanic), had pitiful graduation rates, and had equally pitiful teachers.

Nobody cared about most of the students. The teachers did not want to be there. When it rained, the halls were filled with mud.
This is not a learning environment. I will forever feel cheated by my middle and high schools.

In the long run, it would be cheaper to improve the public school system. It is not really that difficult.

Vouchers will make the public schools worse, leaving children behind. Which is contrary to the education slogan of the proponents "leave no child behind."

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Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit

 

That's constructive.

"You're not just wrong, or misinformed, or backing a plausible but inefficacious idea. You're stupid because your ideas are different from mine."

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I didn't use the cocaine to get high, I just liked the way it smelled.

 

BK,

Yes, that was just my opinion, to be taken as any reader wishes. It is not just because it is different than my views - I am not like that. I have just done a decent amount of research on the subject, and have some practical life-experience that I think lends itself to this particular area.

I apologize if it upsets anyone, but that is how I feel. I am not demeaning the people who have these ideas. just the concept of the idea.

Please respond to what I said after my opinion.



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Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit

 

Jeff~

I never said it was a perfect system but to pour money down a well does not solve the problem either. So what if the kids are taught to pass a test. At least they are learning something and quite possible get to like learning. Reading a book can increase your writing skills greatly. If you have programs that get parents involved then whats the problem. Teachers needs to be payed more but the feds should not be the ones to do it. Local schools should be controlled be local people. That is all I am saying.

Redistributing the money is not the answer. I would prefer that local people vote on how their school tax dollars are used.

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Houston Rockets Forever!!
In Rudy We Trust

 

One problem that our legislature can't figure out in Ohio is how to fairly distribute the money in the 1st place. Do you do it per student, per area, etc.

I work in a one of the best school districts in the state and they only receive 25-30% of their funding from state/federal dollars, the remainder all comed from property taxes (paid by the residents) who agreed, by vote, to raise their property taxes in order to ensure their children have the best public education possible.

Also from hearing Bush speak he mainly talks about turning the schools ove rto the states and not the federal government. I agree with that. Also he talks about letting kids go to whatever school they want, which in theory would force the schools that lose students to improve or eventually shut down. I also agree with that, although it does make it tough on less wealthy folks to get their kids to other schools.
I know I will also get ripped for this but I for one don't believe teachers are that underpaid. Teachers get into teaching for one of 3 reasons 1) The kids 2) Coaching or 3) Short work years. Teachers know going in they will not be rich. For the teachers who work hard I give them credit but too many bad teachers pull down the good ones. How many teachers did each of us have that use the standardized test straight from the teachers edition, how many actually graded the homework (not just checked it if it was done). Teachers get 2 months off for summer, realistically work a short day (7:30-3:30 with a lunch period and planning period), & get off many holidays. Figure the average job requires 2080 hours/year (52 weeks * 40 hours/week) and I would guess a teacher has 43 weeks at 35 hours/week (1505 hours). I give them credit for their emotional toll of dealing with children's personal problems but we all face different things, but I never listen to teachers complaing about money, if they wanted money they would do something else.
I do agree the good ones should be paid more, but the teachers unions prevent this. I know my post won't be popular but that's just my opinion.

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From all Ive heard and seen, the voucher system has had some success in the inner city so afr, as Mad Max points out. Im not saying it is the way to go, or it is the best idea, but I am saying that I think it is overall having positive effects and is a better idea than simply redistributing the wealth. While each school should have the same opportunities, you said it yourself Jeff, the schools that get less are in poorer neighborhoods. If your goign to "redistribute the wealth" you have to concetrate on the whole neighborhood. Othewise, your just going to end up buying a whole bunch of really nice stuff that is going to be ignored and trashed in no time, even though it will be a definite improvement. Anyway, the fact that Bush is focusing on education makes it good in my book. Maybe hes doing it the right way, maybe he isnt. But he is at least trying, with a creative idea, one that hasnt been put to much use yet at all so it isnt known for sure whether it will work at all or not yet.

As far as teachers getting raises in their salaries. Well, everyone pretty much agrees with this. And Bush has raised Texas' teachers salaries.

One last thing...not all private schools are religiously affiliated. A lot are, but many arent, so this isnt really a religious issue at all.

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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women!

 

1) Has anyone deciphered how vouchers work?
2) Are they constitutional?
3) What will be the aftermath? Will private schools become swamped and appeal to the recently unemployed teachers to fill their needs?

Immanuel Kant's "categorial imperative" states that you should only act (pardon the paraphrase) "when you can only imagine each and every other person on the planet doing the same thing in the same circumstance". It is impractical to imagine the 300 high schools on my block (j/k, but Utah is very young) unleashing all of their kids upon the Catholic school up the street.

Irregardless of the mantra, ask yourself this simple question will the damn things work?

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In related news, the RNC has gathered every politician that Bill Clinton ever defeated to speak on behalf of George W. Bush.

 

Again, I reiterate.

Why not just get the MONEY that we all know is there and go to each public school and say "Hey, lets fix the hallways here." "Lets fix the floors." "Lets get some new books in here." "Hey, lets get some computers in here."

Why not just give the teachers exams to see if they know what they are teaching and then give them evaluations(just like all of us who get them at work) and those who fail...fire them. Hire new, young, qualified teachers, start them with a decent salary, hold them accountable for their graduation rate and for a certain percentage, their salary raise is matched by a percentage. For example, you graduate 100 percent of your class to the next level, you get a 10 percent raise each year. You graduate 90, you get 9. You graduate 50 or less, you get nothing. But, you get warnings, and after 2 sub-par years, your out.

Some people might think that there are students who just don't get it or have family problems that hinder their learning capabilities. That is true in some cases. Parents have to be involved also and some teachers don't have the students parent involvement and that makes it more difficult. But, in my opinion, if the teacher tries her absolute best and is the most qualified for the job, I guarantee you that at least 80 percent will graduate with good grades. And I don't know too many parents who want their kids to be bums anyway.

In all, they should try and structure the public school systems like the corporate world. You pay the good executives the money to lead the company. You pay teachers the money to lead our future. If you can't lead, then you are fired. Plain and simple. People in corporate jobs like me have no room for error because they expect alot from me and if I don't perform, there is a younger, just as qualified guy with a possible MBA waiting in the wings. Teachers need to have that type of accountability if they don't perform. The school system needs to be structured where the teacher is compensated to stay overtime with students and keep going to a sort of "seminar" to keep themselves up to date with teaching techniques and the like.

Again, this is just my humble opinion. But I just don't see how the hell people in Europe, Asia and South America have less to work with and they keep kicking our ass when it comes to schooling. My cousin came here a few years ago from the Dominican Republic and when she got into the 11th grade, she told me that they are teaching her Algebra II. Well, she had trigonometry AND chemistry already in the 9th and 10th!! I never had trig during my 16 years of education and didn't have chemistry until my senior year in high school. She thinks high-school is easy and thinks college was not that hard. She proved it when she graduated from NYU with a 3.6 in Biology. And that is not just her. I know everyone here sees how people who come from other countries start kicking butt in school as soon as they learn the language. True or not?

Ok, thats enough from me.



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I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan

 

Jeff~

I am all for spending more money on the schools but not spending the money on buracrates and silly things. The teachers and the schools should get the bulk of the money not the superintident or his flunkies.If I vote no to a school bond election because I am unhappy with the way the money is spent does not mean that I am against spending money on schools. How the money is spent has alot to do with why we have only passed one school bond out of four. I for one am for spending money for education AND the military. Without the military we would not be able to protect our liberties and freedom. Without the freedom to vote , we have not have opportunity to have bond elections.

But I do agree that something needs to be done. However to reform the system we must start somewhere and it needs to be done in moderation.

Almu~

Bravo, I could not have said it better myself. Spend the money smartly.

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Houston Rockets Forever!!
In Rudy We Trust


[This message has been edited by Dennis2112 (edited August 02, 2000).]