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Reason TV: The greatest gift to libertarians has been the Obama admin.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    I'm not a "pure" libertarian (i believe on a robust, freedom forward, foreign policy, for instance, and i don't see the contradiction between a pro-life stance and libertarianism), but i think it's probably correct that much of the "change" voters were looking for in 2008, was actually for a smaller, more economically responsible federal government, and Obama either misread, or ignored, this sentiment.

    he may pay for that error in november.

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  2. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    The constant wonder for me with respect to politics, is that people can spin themselves around and twist themselves up so much that they can believe that vastly contradictory positions are somehow entirely consistent.

    Also, you'd also be about 100x smarter if you dedicated the energy you spent describing your political views like an order at Starbucks ("Yes hi I'll have a tall half-skinny half-1 percent extra hot split quad shot latte with whip.") to thinking independently from the labels and embracing the fact that you have contradictory beliefs.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    more on misreading the moment.

    [rquoter]Like other consequential presidents, Obama was a man on a mission in 2008. But he has allowed his agenda to obscure his capacity to see where most Americans were and what they wanted.

    First, he was convinced that the country was so badly served by his Republican predecessor that most Americans understood the need for sweeping change and were prepared to support it. Second, he misread his crisis: the recession. That crisis, though severe to be sure, was not so nation-encumbering that it forced the political system out of fear or desperation to become more pliable. When combined with a Republican Party determined to say no to just about anything, transformative change has proved difficult indeed.

    Besides, Obama isn't FDR. He wasn't as skilled, as grounded in the American experience or, frankly, as likable as Roosevelt, and so he hasn't come to serve as a repository of the nation's trust and confidence. FDR, like Obama, was hated by many, but he was also beloved by millions.

    Finally, unlike some of his predecessors who grounded change in values that many Americans found familiar and functional, Obama hasn't found a unifying message situated in an American experience that is universally shared. Part of Obama's problem is his uniqueness: His professorial, detached and cool-to-cold nature, the racial prejudice against him and his outlier background make him a different kind of president than most Americans have known.

    Obama may have had no choice but to introduce a large stimulus bill to stop the economic bleeding, but healthcare reform (and the way it was done) represented an overreach and stressed a political system that was already dysfunctional. It also convinced many, however unfairly, that he was a man of the left and a big-spending liberal to boot. It isn't for nothing that Gallup ranked him as the most polarizing first-year president since its polling began. Liberals are unhappy, independents are running away, Republicans are rejoicing in his travail, and movements like the "tea party" are gaining ground — all of which makes the case for Obama as polarizer in chief. Only 13% of Americans believe they have benefited from his economic policies, the most depressing statistic of all.[/rquoter]
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    I find that in order to label yourself politically you have to have contradictory views. If you have a clear line of thinking most labels will not fit.
     
  5. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    Talked about Obama for 55 seconds. No exactly an indictment. But I must say the intrigue of Obama in office influenced more people pay attention to how how government and politics work. He's demonstrated how its ALWAYS been and people have noticed. Its questionable if he's actually CHANGED anything for the better. More interesting, to me it seems when you go outside the political box is when you seem like an incompetent power mongering meddler. Still not sure if he should keep continuing to reach across the aisle or operate on his own accord.
     
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    when has The Won actually reached across the aisle?
     
  7. Steve_Francis_rules

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    When he got every Democrat in the Senate to vote in favor of the (1994) Republicans' health care bill?

    Just because his hand was swatted away doesn't mean he wasn't reaching across the aisle.
     
  8. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    I really appreciate that he has helped gun rights. Every leftist voice in the world stated for him to infringe on 2nd admendment rights and to his credit he has not enabled the infringement...
     
  9. Northside Storm

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    interesting point-he is on par with Reagen and Clinton though.

    When things clear up a bit, and private industry stops being massive FAIL (gulf spill, banking collapse etc.), I have a sneaking suspicion that suddenly people will start to realize the Obama Admin's been doing some good, smart, rational thinking.

    but hey, who knows.

    still remember how republicans on this board first measured Obama's performance by setting him two benchmarks-Dow rising and no domestic terror attacks. The goalposts keep on shifting though, I guess. Once you dislike something, it's hard to stop.
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    hilarious
     
  11. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Member

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    Contradictions and snags are impossible to avoid if you subscribe to a party over your own beliefs.

    It's a lot like legislation these days.... yeah, it may have had something in there you liked when it started, but once the bullies have their way with it, it will be so jacked up you barely recognize the good it could have done.
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    LOL, what short memories. the country was on the verge of economic collaspe and they voted for a democrat because they didn't want the government to do something
     

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