Okay, I have tried google searches and I cannot come up with what I need, so I am making a plea on the BBS to those posters who are really good at googling. I need to find an example of a speech given by management that is against unions or having their plant unionized. I need for it to be specific; finding an article that talks about management trying to stop unions coming into their plant is not going to help me. Thanks
Please tell me this is just for a class, and not your actual stance on unions. As a long time PACE (formerly OCAW) member, I am fully in favor of unions and what they stand for. (And before it even begins, I have no desire to discuss this with Trader Jorge. Others are welcome to debate this issue, but I won't bother to reply to you, TJ. )
Bob, Thanks for the link but I looked at that one earlier. I may have to use it if there is nothing else as it is a pretty comprehensive review, but I am hoping to find just a speech. Behad, It is for a class but I am afraid to say that I am not a big pro-union person. I had a thread about this several months ago in your least favorite forum, the D&D, lol. I think that the unions have outlived their usefulness, *can* be out of control for the most part, and it is a fact that the costs of a company go up by 30%. The fact that you can't fire a union guy, no matter how incompetent he is, is ridiculous. But I don't want to turn a request thread in the Hangout to a D&D thread. I also realize that many people here feel the opposite of me and that is fine, as everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just happen to be on the other side of the issue. If that is naivte (sp?) on my part, so be it.
I realize there are people who are not pro-union. I was simply stating I would be willing to engage in open debate about them, with the exception of TJ. First off, it's very easy to fire a union guy if he is incompetant and in need of firing. But what about the flip side? Is it ok for companies to fire qualified people just because the boss doesn't like you, or wants to hire his nephew to take your place?
Understood, but I would rather not have this thread turn into that, but that could be wishful thinking on my part. Someone needs to tell my professor that because he has stated on numerous occasions that you can't fire a union guy. Maybe there is a way around it, but this is coming from a man (talking about my professor) who helped decertify a UAW chapter in Detroit in the '70s. Yea, I know that he may slant the class more towards anti-union, but one thing he has said that is definitely true, IMO, is that people vote against management, i.e. which means they are voting for unions. Doesn't necessarily mean they like unions; they are just tired of what they perceive unfair labor conditions by management. And of course, it is not fair in the example you cited, but that is more of a universal human nature law, I think, in that it is not how much you know, but who you know.
well keep working over the next few days Manny, no weekend for you and remember you are getting paid a dollar an hour
If someone is incompetent, then he makes mistakes. Mistakes that are recorded and acted upon can lead to levels of discipline. Anyone who works a job and makes errors of judgement or is simply not smart enough to learn his job properly will not last. Being a union member will not stop this. BUT, union members have other members to help him correct his mistakes and keep his job. I would hate to work in an environment where I have to constant watch my back so that fellow employees don't stab me to gain a position or pay advantage over me. And what about union employees who steal or break company rules? Does your professor say you can't fire a thief just because he is a union member?
But they get a hearing with the steward right? If they were'nt a union employee to begin with, then they could be fired, right then and there, without having to go through a hearing/appeal process.
Unions are a thing of the past, this is why we have Osha and other federal organizations. I find that jobs that have unions and really help people are not worth keeping. If you're worried about getting fired, then you need to find a new job ... or do your job right. Coming from a business standpoint, unions are horrible. People only care for themselves ... they want more pay and less work. Most workers claim that a higher pay would incite them to work harder, but the reality is that over time, they would resume slacking off.
But without union support, they get fired, right then and there, without getting to give their side of the story, even if they are innocent. If your boss came to you and said "Manny, you're fired for stealing copy paper and pencils", but you didn't take any paper or pencils, wouldn't you want to have a hearing with representation to plead your case?
Wow. Osha is there for working conditions, not terms of employment. If your boss wanted to fire you for no reason, how can OSHA help you? Are you saying my job is not worth keeping because it is a union job? I love my job. Union members care for other union members. It's called collective bargaining for a reason. We stick together so that all get a fair shake, not just the brown nosers and the nephews. And as for slackers, you mean non-union workers do not slack off? And that I do, because I have a union? Hard work is an inherit trait of people. Some do it, some don't, but unions have no bearing on that.
Of course, I would Behad. However, I was using the example that you brought up about the union guy who was stealing. I guessed I read more into it than there was, but it sounded like it was a guy that everyone knew was guilty. Yet, despite getting caught red-handed, I take it that he could still demand a hearing. Now, if you are obviously guilty as sin, why waste the company's time and yours by having a hearing? The thing with me is that my job is one that requires a lot of data entry (when we are busy, heh), but I am one of the very few people in the company that has that type of job that corresponds on a regular basis with the President, the CFO, the head of Marketing, the head of Business Development/COO, the HR director, and numerous VPs. I have made friendships with all of them outside the workplace. Are there some things at my workplace that pisses me off? Yea, there are such as having only 6 holidays, having to use vacation for the day after Thanksgiving, having to work 45 hours before being able to use compensatory time. And if I was an employee that didn't have a regular correspondence with upper level mgmt, then I would think, "Hey, unions would be great for us." But not only do I want to keep these friendships, I don't want resentment towards me for being the one that started the pro-union movement. It all depends on the situation: in your situation, Behad, unions helped you immensely and anyone would expect you to be grateful and a pro-union guy. Nothing wrong with that...in my situation, it makes no sense for me to be a pro-union supporter. It is like a lot of other things - there are pros and cons to each argument.
I am against unions. Sure they have a purpose, but much less than in the past. I think many union representatives are just taking advantage of the system. At least in Germany, they hinder progress and have in fact ruined many companies (in my opinion). The funny thing is that they own some companies and in those, they treat the workers like crap. Behad, I really like you as a poster here, so please do not take this as criticism, but I am only wondering - did you not repeatedly post that you have a job where you basically do almost nothing and you are happy about that? Just curious, it is fortunate for you if that is the case, you get a salary you are happy with and your job is secure. I have not understood how this is a "union job"...perhaps I have not fully understood the system in the US.
Maybe I over-simplified my job. I am a control board operator for an oil refinery. I have 4 boilers that produce steam at 1250 pounds of pressure for use in the refinery, as well as numerous ancillary equipment. Yes, it's a very boring job when things run smoothly, and I have a lot of free time as a result. However, if something were to happen to upset those boilers, I have to be able to correct the situation, and do it in a hurry. If I lose one of those four boilers, the steam system in the plant takes a hit and the other boilers must work harder to make it up. If I lose all four, then serious concequences could result in the other units dependant on my steam. The loss of steam pressure will result in ohter units having to dump their processes, causing millions of dollars in losses in a very short time. In addition, such an upset could result in a catastrophic failure, resulting in a major fire or explosion, with injuies or even deaths. So, to sum up, my job is 98% boredom, and 2% "Oh f***, the s*** is hitting the fan now! It's that two percent of time I get paid for, because if I do not know what to do, serious consequences could result.
That actually is a lot of responsibility. I kind of understood that you were joking when you were saying you do "nothing", I was just curious. Glad you did not take my question the wrong way. Hope you will never have the kind of emergency you are talking about.
Okay, brought this back up because I still need an example of a speech. So, Mango and others - can you help me?
