[Orlando Sentinel] Magic agree to terms with Keyon Dooling

You gotta replace a guard with a guard, though, right? The frontcourt of the East needed help.

And Hill was voted in, just like Steve in all those years he made it in the West when he didn't deserve to (02 and 04).

 

I'm not questioning whether or not Tmac gave "assurances" to Houston that he would re-sign. I'm just questioning whether or not Houston was the only one that he gave those assurances to, which is what Deuce seems to be stating.

Tmac only said he wanted to play in Phoenix and Indy too, so that should be all the assurances anyone in those cities should have needed as well.

 

Hey Mfclark

What did you mean when you said this back in 04: "Truth be told, you guys are the only ones who think the Houston deal [for McGrady] compares favorably to any of the others on the table. Take off the blinders, guys."

I was just curious. thanks

 

Okay so there are 12 players for the East. 5 are voted in by the fans( AI, LeBron, Vinsanity, Grant Hill, Shaq). I have no problem with that.

There are 7 players on the bench. I have no problem with Ben Wallace (somebody had to represent the champs) being the back-up center, and J.O'neal and Antawn Jamison being the back up forwards. And Dwayne Wade being a guard is fine too. That leaves 3 player spots left for any players since all there are enough backups at each position.

this is my rough math for stats before the break last year:

Paul Pierce
22 points per game
44% shooting
31% threes
7 rebounds per game
4.2 assists per game
1.5 steals per game
27-26 Team Record

Big Z
17 points per game
45% shooting
8 rebounds per game
1.5 assists per game
2 blocks per game
30-21 Team Record (gee, they collapsed worse than the Magic)

Franchise
22 points per game
42% shooting
29% threes
6.3 boards per game
6.9 assists per game
1.3 steals per game
28-24 Team Record

Gilbert Arenas
24 points per game
43% shooting
37% threes
4.5 rebounds per game
5.2 assists per game
1.8 steals per game
30-22 Team Record

Okay, I'm not going to say he was "snubbed" anymore. But Steve Francis was just as deserving of an All-Star birth last year as any of the other 3 above. (Larry Hughes deserved it too, but he got injured). I don't think Big Z belonged. Yes, Cleveland had a good record, but that shouldn't guaruntee 2 allstars. Detroit had a good record and just had Big Ben. Z at the break was at 17ppg, 8 boards and 45% shooting...not bad, but not all-star center numbers. Compare that with Yao's backup, Amare last year. Z is the one that sticks out. Big Ben is a 2.5 block, 12 board, Defensive MVP monster...maybe a little overrated nowadays, but still great.

And Steve Francis was the leader of that Magic team in the 1st half. Grant was good, and so was Dwight, and so was Cat, but last year, especially before the break, Steve Francis was their best player.

It could be argued that Girbert Arenas was co-leaders with Antawn and Larry Hughes...and Boston wasn't even real good until the 2nd half and much better when they god Antoine Walker back. So I could even argue that Francis deserved it over Paul Pierce.

So all in all, I'd say Francis over Z first and Paul Pierce second...but not by much. He wasn't snubbed, but deserved it just as much.

 

Oh yeah, and I do believe Franchise was voted in 02-04 by the fans, but not deserving as he was last year, so I agree with you on that Kelly. Francis was popular enough before Yao (jeebus I hate that talking dumbass on morning pizza...skip i think, who said T-Mac and Francis road Yao's coattails from chinese internet votes, and that's why Yao, T-Mac, and Francis ever made allstars..jeebus he's ignorant).

And to this day, I still believe Houston had the best offer.

Phoenix did NOT offer Joe Johnson plus Shawn Marion. It was Marion (who was more valuable than JJ back then) plus Barbosa or something. And Indiana offered Harrington and maybe Bender (who's worthless now), NOT Artest (in hindsight, i guess they should have considering the blowup), and I honestly believe that if Indiana had offered Harrington plus Artest plus Pollard or Harrison, then Weisbrod would have traded with Indiana. Weisbrod loves tough guys and loved that Franchise elbowed Amare. Weisbrod would have loved to have Artest in my opinion, but at that point, Artest was considered untradable as much as J.O'neal. Indiana and Phoenix wanted too keep too much.

Houston traded Steve Francis, 3 time allstar, had a good playoff showing, AND Cuttino Mobley (who played very well in Orlando) AND Kelvin Cato. 3 Starters. That was and still is the best package offered.

If it were re-done, Indiana would have offered Artest because T-Mac just played great in Houston. I don't know if Pheonix would have offered both Marion and JJ now....maybe...but probably not.

 

Guys, I'm almost sure I saw it somewhere where Phoenix's last bottom line offer for T-Mac was JJ & Marion. I also remember either from the Indy Star or some Pacer site that Artest was involved with Indy's final offer to the Magic. I could be wrong.

What I do remember very very clearly was whatever I had read on the Suns' and Pacers' final offers is they were OBVIOUSLY better than what we gave them. Marion plus change, JJ plus change, Harrington plus change are not offers that were clearly better than SF & Cuttino. My memory fails me a lot, but the rumors I read made our deal a distant third in my mind. Oh well, all is well that ends well.

 

You're memory is incorrect sir. Only the NY Times ever reported Phoenix as offering both Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson. And I don't consider the NY Times the paradigm of basketball information. That report is disputed below by a local Phoenix newspaper.

And Larry Bird saying that his deal was better was just his opinion. He even stated that Orlando wanted too much, and LIED about not shopping Al Harrington around.

The Rockets always were the frontrunners, and always had the best deal. Oh yeah, and Phoenix traded their pick to the Bulls in the midst of their supposed offer of Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion (which again, I state is total bs from the NY Times).


The Magic let a Shawn Marion, Casey Jacobsen, Milos Vujanic and the No. 7 pick in the 2004 Draft package pass them by after foolishly holding out for Joe Johnson from Phoenix instead of Jacobsen.
http://probasketball.about.com/od/newsrumorsopinion/a/mcgradyfrancis.htm

Larry Bird:
Interest around the league is high for Al Harrington. The Pacers are not eager to part ways with the outstanding sixth man but he asked for a trade if he is not going to start next year. ``We're not really shopping Al. I wish Al was happy here and everybody else was happy, but sometimes a change of scenery will do both teams some good.''

lol, what a liar.

Bird and Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh have not heard back after they spoke with Magic general manager John Weisbrod late last week.
``Obviously they didn't like the players we put out there and really, we didn't get down to details. We just asked them what they would like and they threw some names out there and the price was really too high for us.''
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...3/bird_says_pacers_offer_for_t_mac_is_better/

The Magic are believed to want either Amare Stoudemire or a combination of Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson off the Suns' roster.
A first-roud draft pick would almost certainly need to be included in a deal.

In fact, a New York Times report has the Suns offering Marion, Johnson and the No. 7 pick in the draft. Yet a similar trade idea that made the media rounds about a month ago was scoffed at by the Suns.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/?sty=23574

 

What about everything else I stated? My argument is that the Clippers, the Warriors, the Wizards and the Hawks are all worse run organizations than the Magic. Are you disagreeing with me on that? You spoke of how anybody would have taken Shaq, but fail to mention how brilliant the signings of Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady could have been had only Grant Hill remained healthy. You talk about how the Magic failed to put players around McGrady, but you fail to mention how they were supposed to do that with Grant Hill's albatross contract. (Which, incidentally, doesn't make them any worse than a team like the T-Wolves who have been failing to surround Garnett with the right talent for nearly a decade now)

Also, in claiming that the only thing that has kept the Magic from being just as terrible as the Hawks were a few lucky draft picks in Shaq, Penny and Dwight Howard, you completely disregard the signing of Tracy McGrady. Signing him was actually the second best move in that franchises history to date.

But you know, even if they were only lucky, those other franchises aren't even that. What's the old addage - I'd rather be lucky than good? Well, if all things are equal, I'm calling the franchise that at least has some luck on it's side the better one.

Again, my point was that the Magic aren't the worst franchise in the league and I named four other organizations I think are worse. Your argument only demonstrated that the Magic is a terrible organization, which is something I didn't argue against. If you're going to disagree with me, at least disagree with the point I actually made. Instead of just showing me why the Magic is a horrible organization, (and I'm very well aware of all that by the way) show me why the hell they're worse than the others I named. Otherwise, you aren't even disagreeing with me and you had no reason to quote me and put up what appeared to be some sort of argument.

 

just like Hill Francis was voted in '02 and it wasn't because of Yao.