Do you support the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare)

We need to do whatever the heck Hong Kong is doing.

 

Voting yes, but would prefer single payer.

 

Usually entrepreneurship is associated with some level of innovation with product/service or process. If you open a dry cleaning store you're a small business owner yes, but usually that's not what I meant when I was saying entrepreneur. not that one is better or superior to the other. It's just a level of risk involved. But it doesn't matter.

 

Level of Risk Involved? I've got $150K in ATM Machines with another $200k of cash sitting inside them, that's not risk? They can't get stolen? Can't get broken into and lose my money? I think you're looking down on me just bc I didn't invent something like you, but it's irrelevant bc I have a steady and significant income while you can't afford health insurance.....would you rather be in your shoes or mine? Sure you might get a big payday at some point but im getting a bigger payday with every new machine i add, 2 more this month and hopefully 2+ a month from here on out. In 5 years I could have 150 ATMs feeding me $4-500/month on avg while you may or not have launched a home run

 

Yet you are on here adding to your risk, very smart guy I see.

 

Hong Kong has very little health insurance and the highest out of pocket spending rate in the developed world. They have public health care which can be bought for a fee.

 

No I don't support it, mostly because it doesn't really solve the root of the healthcare issue. The root of the problem is that there are few doctors, but many people who need to see them. If you increase the number of people able to see a doctor through legislation, but are inable increase the number of doctors available you still end up back in the same spot only now you have increased the costs on everyone. This is called "taxation" without "representation", where I come from.

What's next? Are we going to advocate that every person deserves the BEST defense attorney whenever they have a need for one? Because when you think about it, its basically as asinine of a thought.

If you want good healthcare, you have to pay for it. Supply and demand. We cannot and will not ever be able to care for everyone, if we could our world would become overpopulated and resources would diminish very quickly. I know this is a cynical way of looking at things, and I don't mean to sound insensitive. But, currently the people who can afford healthcare are also the people who have the best capacity to maintain life and not drive us off a cliff.

 

And before you go on about socialized medicine in Europe or other places, you must also recognize the reality of the world we live in. Currently, most of the socialist countries in Europe that are able to provide care at lower costs as well as government aid to their people don't spend a dime on defense. Why? Because big brother America is the country that protects them and allows their socialists agenda's to exist. We pay the price in blood and money while they relax in their socialist utopia.

Believe me, and listen. If we cut our defense spending on European countries, it would cause most of these countries to collapse under their own unsustainable debt. Its easy to lay back and spend government dollars on the people. Welfare, goverment housing, healthcare, etc, when you don't have to worry about defending your country because the good ol USA will do it for you.

Like my old man always said, socialism works great until you run out of other peoples money. When the money runs out you become Spain, or worse...Greece.

 

exactly why do people keep wanting to be like europe? Europe's economy is in the toilet. Look at Spain and Greece, both blew up last year. France? That month off every year is as liberal as you get, the head of giant tire maker said the french workers were the laziest he's ever seen and gerard depardieu earlier this year gave up his citizenshp to move to belgium bc the top tax bracket was proposed at 75%......truly a beacon we want to follow

All I know is europe and high taxes and socialism leads to 25% unemployment like greece which has 50% youth unemployment. People here complain about 7.5% unemployment, what happens if we hit 25% like your model nation? All I know is lower taxes means rich people have the opportunity to have more free cash to create more jobs, sure many will save it and do nothing, but many will create jobs. When's the last time a poor person opened a small business and created opportunities for others to have jobs?

The european way of life is nice, but its unsustainable, I don't hear stories of people flocking to europe to live the european dream, its called the american dream bc it's doable here in the US thanks to low taxes and the chance at upward mobility

 

I don't think people want to be exactly like Europe (if that is such a thing with so many different countries and cultures), but there are some things they do better. One of them is health care.

Another one is the American Dream. It's easier to become rich if you are poor in places like France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, etc. Those are the facts at this particular time. It wasn't always the case, but policies like the ones conservatives advocate have made it so now.

 

It's a matter of degrees.

Do I support ACA over the way it was or doing nothing? Yes

Is it the health care system I prefer? No. I would support a single payer system more than ACA for sure. I think Single payer would be the best system so that's what I really support. But I do support ACA over the crap we used to have.

 

Do you have any source on this?

 

Why can't the government negotiate on drug prices? Or set up quasi-government manufacturing and supply?

(Hint: $$$$$$$$)

One of my friends runs a $5 billion dollar a year health care system. I argue with him all the time that basic healthcare should be a non-profit enterprise. We need to train doctors the way we train pilots, expensive training in exchange for a long term public service commitment.

 

Do you realize it takes a well over decade commitment to become a doctor? Why would anybody devote 15% plus of their life studying and incur basically a second mortgage in debt to make a moderate salary and help people. They could just finish high school and start a charity. Are you listening to yourself? You want the best and brightest to have a moderately successful life. I hate to break it to you but money is what people are after, it's why people steal, it's why poor people sell drugs, it's all because we want to be rich. Sure there's a few docs that love the doctors without borders thing and saving the world but for the most part people become doctors bc they love science AND money.

Pilots don't spent 15-20% of their life training to become pilots....great argument, you're definitely a democrat im assuming and opposed to rich people bc they're jerks?

 

Because they want to be doctors and they like the idea of helping people, saving lives, etc. It's done all over the world in nations with better health care than they have here in the U.S.

 

link pls

 

That's not the root of the economic problem, not even close.

In fact, you couldn't be more wrong.

The problem with healthcare is that a simple supply and demand model is empirically non-optimal and leads to bad outcomes.

There is no serious debate about this.

 

There is no need to train doctors for that long. Plenty of other countries do not require a bs degree prior to medical school. You could easily make people to straight to medical schools and then put in master and phd degrees for people who want to train more. This is just another artificial barrier to entry set up by the AMA.

 

That's what I argue with my friend, there is not a rational formula for supply and demand in healthcare. If you are dying you will spend every cent you can find to not die, there is no point in which the individual will say "no that's too expensive I'll pass".

So it's funny that the GOP fought Obamacare with the great threat of Death Panels when a separate, rational non-emotional body has to make decisions on healthcare, and they do every day.

 

It is a half full type measure. It helps about 2/3 of the uninsured get coverage.
It keeps the useless insurance folks extracting profits. Is less cost effective than single payer, is complicated and coves fewer folks.

Nonetheless it is much better than nothing for the 2/3 of the uninsured it covers.

I reluctantly voted yes