Cherry picking on FG% to make a point is ridiculous. But to be fair, he does have a lot to improve on. His drop in FG% has lot more to do on how the defense plays him than his own decline. He needs to be a lot smarter about his shot selection now the whole opponent team just swarms him whenever he gets the ball. I think a lot of the time his misses come from him getting the ball with the shot clock down trying to bail the offense out. Other times he simply gets stuck in the air and is indecisive about whether to pass it to a teammate or finishing at the rim (which usually end up being a missed layup). At this point Rose needs to adjust his play according to the defense, and learn to make smarter decisions while driving to the hole when half of the defense collapses on him.
did you actually see the 6-22 game vs memphis? he was awful in that game; absolutely awful. he was literally a ghost and the only time he made an impact was the last 2 minutes of the 4th where he scored a really clutch basket and made a ton of fts when memphis was fouling. the defense was the ONLY reason they were in the game and won the game. anyways, let's agree to disagree. this point has been harped by many stat freaks that rose is not an efficient player. you think otherwise. agree to disagree. i don't think cherry picking fg% in this case is ridiculous to defend my broader argument: bulls' defense and rebounding are more than half the reason why the bulls are where they are at right now. the bulls play a half-court grind it out offense. they take 80 shot attempts per game and only 25 ft attempts per game, which are average #s team-wise as they are either in the middle of the L or a little above it. when your best player consistently shoots 40% over an extended period of time in a half-court slow paced games, it puts A TON of pressure on your defense to defend on their own end. fortunately for the bulls, they are the best at doing that. let's be sure to say that if rose doesn't increase that fg% up to at least 45-46% consistently in the playoffs, they are going to lose. the 3s are definitely affecting his fg% as he is taking 5s this year. rose has always shot at least 47% in his first 2 years but he rarely relied on his jumpshot then. so the dip can be attributed to his jumpshot. the thing is if you watch derrick rose, teams respect his drive so much that they will dare him to shoot, and i think he's so confident in his jumpshot that he'll shoot it. i'm sure rose will get better in this offseason b/c he's such a hard worker and always wanting to improve his game. he did that this year by adding a jumper to diversify his game, and i was the first one on this board to applaud him for that this past offseason. just to point out, i don't "hate" derrick rose. i think he will be a legit top 5 player NEXT year when he can further fine tunes his game. i just don't believe he is the "best" person to win the MVP right now b/c there are 2-3 other players who play at a level right now derrick rose and the other stars can't even see.
Garbage. True stat freaks wouldn't look at only fg%. They'd look at ts%. Using a flawed metric is never justified. That just means that you're incapable of putting together a sound argument to support your assertion. There simply aren't any other candidates. I'd say the only legitimate one besides Rose is Kobe. Lebron and Wade are on the same team so they'd take votes away from each other. And the Orlando Magic have the 8th best record in the league. IMO, that precludes him from MVP discussions. Since Kobe didn't get the MVP in 05-06, Howard's chances don't look good.
again, i always seem to repeat myself to you. here is what hollinger, the #1 stat freak in the NBA, says about derrick rose's play since the break: "But as far as Rose just getting better ... no. Actually, his stats since the All-Star break are Baron-esque, but the Bulls have been winning anyway... Because there were 19 other games since the break, and he shot bricks in most of them, except for the one where he had ten turnovers. Look, if Rose averaged 30 and 17 then he'd obviously be the MVP, but you can cherry pick the best games from lots of players and make them look like an MVP. But he's at 40.8% since the break and 28.9% on 3s" he focuses on the fg% too. when it's that bad, it's so hard to overlook my friend. go to ESPN truehoop and read a lot of those guys' statistical breakdowns of rose. thats your definition of an MVP. john hollinger wrote perfectly what i feel an MVP should be. and it's funny how you mention kobe as the "only" other candidate when he has the best PF in the game and the best frontline in the L. i don't agree with that b/c you can't punish guys for who they play with (jordan played with pippen, bird and magic played with other HOF, shaq played with kobe, and so on..) if you look back at the history of winners, the MVP "usually" goes to the best player or one who is close to it. there were "a few" exceptions. this year will be that exception.
I Don't understand you at all T-mac_1. If you truly don't hate Drose and is his fan and you LOVE to watch him play why in the world are you against him winning the MVP despite what stats he has or don't have? Please enlighten me. For example, I love both Yao and Dwight Howard. Assume both are top MVP candidates and that Howard is the better overall player but Yao gets more vote. There's no way in hell I will come in a forum and dispute that Yao shouldn't deserve the MVP b/c I'm his fan and I think both are deserving despite whoever has the worst stat. I should be happy if either of them win. It seems like you're not happy even thought you said you're his fan and love to watch him. Catch my drift?
I really don't care who uses fg% as the basis of an argument. I'd be more than happy to argue any of them into submission. Care to make a tipjar wager? The reason you think that is b/c the best players usually play on the best teams. However, the way I see it, the award usually goes to the best player on the best team. It seems like the mitigating circumstances are 1. no clear cut "best player" on the team in which case players from other top teams are considered 2. dramatic increase in wins 3. being one of the top teams while sustaining substantial injuries Right now, the Magic are nowhere near being one of the best teams.
b/c i don't feel rose is playing at an MVP level, well since the break for the most part. and the media hype portrays him as basically the best player in the L right now or how the bulls would basically suck ass if rose got injured is completely erroneous. i just don't feel it's right. just b/c i like watching drose play doesn't mean i can't criticize him. i LOVED tmac but had he won the MVP in 07-08 (and he had a great chance at doing that), i would have rolled over my grave. furthermore, i just feel that the rose hype has completely overshadowed what a dominant season dwight howard is having (he's by far and away the most impressive player for me this season). anyways, i'll stop lol. go right ahead. like i have said many times, 40%fg is disgusting. argue away whatever you want. you bring that to NBA GM or fan with whatever TS% you want, nobody would think a 40% shooter is efficient. michael jordan won an MVP in 87-88 and his team did NOT have a top 6 record. they were 50-32 that year (the 7th best record in the L and the 3rd seed in his conference). why you ask despite not having a top 2-3 record? b/c he put up 35, 6, 6 on 54% fg. so you can award the MVP to guys whose teams are not top 3-4, but their dominance shines over everyone. and that's dwight howard. nobody is playing close to the level dwight has been playing, particularly after the all-star break. right now, orlando has the 8th best record in the L. dwight is putting up 23ppg, 14rpg, 2.4bpg, 1.3spg, on 60%fg and playing the best defense out of any player in the L. so again, look back at the history of MVP winners, they were usually a top 3-4 player who play above the stratospheres most other players play on (with the exception of nash, and now potentially with rose). so hopefully you donate to the tip jar
Kobe's team had the 13th best record in 05-06, not the 8th best. They didn't have homecourt in the first round like the Magic will. Orlando is going to win 50+ games, something the 05-06 Lakers did not do.
Eastern Conference competition not as strong as West. Dwight has NBA level players on his team, the 05 06 Lakers had Kwame, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton who are chumps. Dwight is not going to win MVP. If the Lakers get the No. 1 over all seed, this award belongs to Mr. Kobe Bean Bryant
The misconception of the East having weaker competition is annoying. The East have fewer teams fighting to get IN the playoffs, but the competition for the top four seeds are always tough... In the west, the top four teams are somewhat solidified and teams are fighting to get IN the playoffs, not necessarily jocking for playoff position.
Tough? LeBron is 1-5 in playoff series against 50 wins team. His success is comparable to Yao. And best team Cavs beat was 53 wins Pistons. Rox beat 52 wins Blazers. He's very lucky to be in east or he's comparable to TMac.
Bayless working Rose tonight. Again, Rose is not the reason for Bulls' awesome defense. He is actually their worst defender on the starting lineup. You can make a case for Boozer but they are pretty much both awful. Dwight for MVP.
Is Rose the best closer in the game? Another strong 4th qtr for him. With Noah out he has 37pts 11-20, 10 assist,11-12 ft, 3blk, 4rb. He had some key defensive play to ignite his team.
Someone's talking out of their ass Bull's defense is a system, there isn't one player that single handedly makes it great. They have great philosophy on defending pick and rolls, great discipline on rotations, every player boxes out on every play, and closes hard on three point shooters. The worst defender on the Bulls will be someone that forgets his rotation, or loses his man. Just because Bayless got hot today doesn't make Rose the "worst defender" on the team. If you are expecting Rose to be a Battier, you must be smoking something because there isn't one shut down D guy on the team. How they work hard and together is what makes their defense great. Oh and BTW, 36 pt, 10 assist and 3 blocks. MVP.
wow such a r****ded statement on your part...made even worse by the fact that Rose pretty much took over the game and was by far the main reason they won tonight with his spectacular offensive plays and highlight reel defensive blocks. To say that Rose is the Bulls worst defensive player, and worse than Carlos Boozer is like saying that Mother Teresa was a bigger slut than Courtney Love...(i.e. you sir are a certifiable moron when it comes to analyzing NBA players and performances). Over the last 5 games: 29.4 ppg 9.8 astpg 48.9% FG 89& FT 11 FTA's per game and has not shot less then 9 in any game! Man that guy is really inefficient huh?
Oh and by the way: From Elias: The Bulls made 41 field goals on Saturday, of which Derrick Rose had 11 made shots and 10 assists. It was the 26th time this season that Rose made or assisted on at least half of the Bulls field goals in one game, the highest such total for any NBA player this season.
Let's not forget here which tmac_1 and other fail to see b/c they don't watch the game. Rose also gets more attention to the defensive scheme opposing team used against him then either Lebron, Kobe or Wade. Its easy to focus on one super-star then on three. That has been the story of Rose all year. Its amazing to get double teamed and closing down the lane for him and still be able to put up the kind of number that he has.
Let's not forget here which tmac_1 and other fail to see b/c they don't watch the game. Rose also gets more attention to the defensive scheme opposing team used against him then either Lebron, Kobe or Wade. Its easy to focus on one super-star then on three. That has been the story of Rose all year. Its amazing to get double teamed and closing down the lane for him and still be able to put up the kind of number that he has. Thats why its so stupid to say "but oh, Westbrook put up similar number". Yet he has a bonafide star along side him where gets almost no thread on defense.
To me it doesn't matter how much people bring up D. Rose. He has indeed been impressive, but to my mind D. Howard is the true MVP of the league. People can bring whatever stat they want to bring up, however the fact that the Magic are in the playoff hunt and a good defensive team despite their roster should be enough proof of who should be the real MVP. So D Rose has put some impressive assist and scoring number so what? Until he starts putting up 20-20s in an irregular basis he still can't compare to Howard. Drawing defensive attention doesn't really matter as much as being the defensive core of your team; I'd rather have howard blocking the middle, grabbing boards and then scoring 14 pts rather than Rose drawing the defense for the other players. Remember how we went from darkhorse contenders to lottery bound when Yao got injured? Same thing here, as a legitimate franchise big man, DH is just more valuable than Rose. The "they're not winning" example is just total BS, and actually penalizes Howard for having worse teammates. I mean, give him Wade and Bosh or Deng+Noah and let's who really has the best record.
