i haven't read through this thread, but i will add that trevor is a lot like von wafer in regards to his handles and penetration. i think these are the types of guys from whom a lot of confusion stems. von drove to the basket A TON last season. but these drives weren't "creating" or indicative of ball handling ability. when the ball would swing around the perimeter, he could use that momentum while his man wasn't set to blow by and explode to the basket. this was huge for us and something we have never had. this is also something trevor ariza is capable of. but then seeing this, people naturally assume that that ability can be extrapolated over to one on one situations. "of course he can create, watch how many drives he has in this highlight video!" it doesn't work that way. watch von against vujacic when vujacic guarded him straight up. he was completely overmatched and could barely put the ball on the floor. the ability to create entails the ability to face your man up and get around him off the dribble using fakes, change of direction moves, change of pace dribbles etc. neither von wafer nor trevor ariza has this ability. straight drives to the basket != ball handling/creating
exactly. von usually explodes to the basket OFF THE CATCH where his man usually recovers from helping yao or scola or someone else. i rarely see him beat his man straight up off the dribble from a standstill. ariza has the same ability, catching balls from kobe/gasol.
lol you can't really compare him to Von. Just watch his size and his length. Unbelievable. Gotta love that. A shorter Odom.
right. and for whatever reason, people just don't perceptually grasp this distinction. and it's HUGE. von wafer has two ways of getting to the hoop: a) off the catch using the momentum of the ball against an off-balanced defense b) he does a move where he takes one dribble to his right or left and then crossed back over quickly to the other hand, exploding to the hoop. trevor does the first, and i don't see why he couldn't do the second. any professional basketball player with decent lateral quickness can. but this is NOT indicative of ball handling/creating. if you put a man right in front of either one of them, they won't have the moves to get around them. these guys can only get by opponents using straightaway lateral bursts. you can't consistently beat NBA defenders/help defenses with lateral bursts to the hoop. creating entails going behind your back, crossing over, spinning, doing anything to reliably get around your guy without having to be faster than him. neither trevor ariza nor von wafer will EVER be able to do what i just described above. if they can't by age 24, they won't have it.
don't worry, cabb, morey understands this. that's why he signed him to the mid-level. if ariza has star potential, he would have signed for more. there have been TONS of young players signing for much more just off "potential." we all know what ariza's potential will be (unless he surprises us, which we all would love)
DD you do realize that not everyone has handles like AI, Kobe, Francis3 or Tracy for that matter right..... You're talking about a guy who's been playing since he was probably 8 or so, I'm pretty sure he can dribble a basketball and get to the lane. If he couldn't he wouldn't be in the L. There are a ton of different dribbling styles and each player uses what is effective for him. I've seen Ariza play a lot, he may not break a defenders ankles but he can definitely get to the rack when he wants to. I'm thinking you're basing the whole "he can't dribble" thing off of his time with the Lakers. If you notice, there's not a guy on that team not named KB24 who does any excessive dribbling. The triangle allows players to get into the lane off of ball movement and passing.....much like ours if it's run right and much like MJ's Chicago squads. If you're that unsure about Trevor's handles, you should go back and check him out when he was with Orlando and the Knicks
odom's skills and all-around game in college made him a high draft pick where the clips thought he could have been their savior. that's how talented odom was and still is. ariza will be consistent yes, consistently decent for us. and we should be happy with that.
I don't expect Ariza to be more than Battier 2.0 ... which is pretty awesome, actually. Battier is at his greatest value right now, after being the Kobe stopper, and getting all the press as the premier defender in the league ... and Morey is all about multiplying player assets. Battier is probably the key to getting that "star player" he keeps talking about upgrading to. Now that we have a younger Battier in Ariza, I expect Battier to get traded sometime soon. A younger Battier is just fine with me.
as long as he plays d, thats fine with me and hit the open 3, damn i just made a rhyme and did not mean to do it. damn im good
This is exactly how I feel. And thecabbage is right about Von and Ariza and dribbling, but Adelman's offense is tailor made for a guy who can do what Von and Trevor can do.....when they move off the ball. I want them both.....if the $$$$$ is right. DD
I think best case he'll play like 03-04 James Posey for the duration of his contract. 13.7ppg 4.7reb 47fg% 38%from3 18.8PER (Posey did this while playing just under 30mpg btw). Posey's ability to create was never that great (battier like handle) but one thing he did was develope was a catch n shoot game. I remember him coming off of picks and curling for mid-range jumpers. If Ariza improves offensively this will probably be the improvement most likely. Wrost case he's a more atheletic Battier. Which would be perfectly fine cause unlike the original Battier, a lottery pick wasn't given up to get him. Guys like Ariza get MLE deals all the time. As far as the ball-handling debate. That skill doesn't usually get "better" as you get older....it usually gets worse. Its a part of athleticism(agility specifically) that goes as guys age....but generally later in their careers. Although there are exceptions. Vince Carter is the guy that comes to mind. Paul Pierce is another but these guys could always "get themselves a shot". They improved their ability to change direction and dribble in traffic (i.e splitting a trap in the pick n roll). Artests handle was never great but could create a shot for himself. Maggette's the same way. Its one of those "you either have it or you dont" type of things.
I'm sooooooooo glad someone made this thread. Can anyone name a player from the Phil Jackson era, from Chicago to LA. that went on to be a star after he left Jackson's team? You can't really name any, cause all of them were system players, that look good in the triangle offense working off either Jordan, Pippen Shaq and Kobe. Ariza is a system guy that have yet to average 10 points a season. Just because he looked good playing against us and other teams in the playoffs, you don't throw that kind of money to system guy. And this move also will hurt our cap space for the 2010 season. Since we don't have any of our stars for the beginning of the season, this signing will look bad on Morey until Ariza have a star player to play off of. So that being that, I think Ariza's potential, will come off the defensive side. Maybe he'll win all defensive honors.
i honestly think he can become a chriss boch with good defense wait and see houston rockets were amazing happens
