[ESPN] Battier, Hayes on Hollinger's All-Defense Teams

Kobe is getting the nod because he slaps his hands on the floor occasionally(much like Greg Paulus at Duke) and because of the job he did on AI 7 YEARS AGO!! in the 2nd half of a regular season game. We saw T-Mac lock down Dirk for 7 games and he never saw respect.

He's at best an average defender, but like most superstars at his position(T-Mac, and now Lebron) he only guards the best player in spurts, usually towards the end of a game. Gambling and weakside blocking is not what I would take into consideration for an All-Defense team(sorry AI, Wade).

Look at some all defense teams over the years. It's a travesty. Dwayne "I jump in every passing lane even for fakes and jump for every pumpfake even if Mutombo is at the 3pt line" Wade is on one. Kobe made it over Shane last year. The same Kobe that gave up 60 to Gilbert in his own building. That's enough to let people know these aren't legit.

 

Ok heres the problem with chuck hayes advocates...I don't love the guy but dont like him either

Sure he is good on defense, but he can't gaurd PFs that shoot right over him or have a tough inside presence like Amare or KG by making stupid fouls. NEVERTHELESS his numbers do show he is good on defense.

My main point is that he is basically a huge liability on offense. Well alot of players are...but chuck actually hurts the team on offensive plays. He turns the ball over...misses layups that scola and landry would easily put in...but most importantly TURNS THE BALL OVER. I know his season statistic shows that he doesn't but seriously watch the games...


i think the guy deserves some props on defense and would love to gives this guy an all defensive team, BUT he isn't a complete player.
Chuck Hayes ...welcome to the all defensive third team...You truelly do deserve it because of your hard work on the court


If the Rockets draft Roy Hibbert....Defensive just like Chuck but with a slightly better offense. Then I can see chuck getting out of the rotation.

 

That is ok because he tends to push guys so far out of their comfort zone that shooting over him doesn't help them much. If a guy is effective from 8ft and in it doesn't matter if he shoots over Chuck if Chuck has muscled the guy out to 14ft.

That has more to do with those guys being the elite of the elite when it comes to PF. Nobody slows them down although I will admit that KG routinely abuses Chuck. I can accept that a guy who should go down as a top 5-6 PF of all time cannot be slowed by Hayes.

I've watch McGrady dropped huge numbers on Artest and Bruce Bowen. You telling me they are not elite defenders?

Turnovers are quantifiable stats. If a guy turns the ball over it shows up as a number that one can follow. Watching the games does not somehow reveal all of these supposed turnovers that fail to make it to the box scores. Chuck is not a scorer and that is ok but neither is Bruce Bowen but he has been starting for the best in the last 10 years for some time now. The key isn't Chuck's inability to put up big numbers offensively it is about the other guys who were brought here to score and were/are not. Chuck's role is well defined and stays within it perfectly.

His defense isn't "just like Chuck's" until he comes to the NBA and plays defense like Hayes for a few seasons. I keep hearing from some posters that Landry's defense is just like Chuck's but it isn't even in the same solar system. It is great to have a player that hustles but Chuck hustles, is strong as an ox and is a very smart defender. Don't discredit his ability by comparing him to people who are rookies or not even in the league.

 

Thats like popularity contest or something.Tmac deserved to be on it 3 years in a row and was never on it.00-03.One year he had 100+blks and 100+ stls (Like one of only 5 players to do that in Nba history.Hakeem also did it).

 

Chuck Hayes is a great defensive player and it is good to hear him finally get some recognition for it.

But I still see Chuck Hayes' role on this team lessening even more going into next year. It already was before Yao went down. Scola has supplanted him as the starter and Landry may make him even more expendable if he continues to develop appropriately and can remain injury free.

I think Adelman values his defense but values the offensive opportunities that Scola and Landry bring. I see Chuck now as a valuable defensive player off the bench or as a valuable trade piece in an upgrade of one of our other positions.

 

If Kobe ever didn't have to carry the load on offense so much he would be a no brainer for DPOY but he has to contain his energy for offense. He has all of the tools needed to be a great defender he just doesn't use them consistently because his team would lose if he didn't save energy to light people up.

I like Battier getting the nod over him because he deserves some recognition though.

I don't really understand the Raja Bell pick though. He is worse than Kobe even though Kobe reserves himself, he just looks good because he doesn't routinely get blown by the way that Phoenix's stars do.

 

Hayes +/- per 100 possessions: +2.3
Scola +/- per 100 possessions: -2.0
Landry +/- per 100 possessions: +5.1

Hayes PER: 12.6
Scola PER: 17.6
Landry PER: 24.1

Conclusion: Hayes is a specialty defensive player. Scola is a specialty offensive player. Landry is a complete player. In the long run, Landry is the starting PF, Scola is the backup center, and Hayes is the backup PF.

 

I loved watching Durant thinking he was going for a layup as he ran past Hayes last night and Hayes just slapped the ball out of his hands. Hayes hands are fast and powerful, lol.

He gets a ton of steals from ball slaps.

 

kobe is a great defender if he can put his mind to it, but since shaq left his defense has taken a dive, but just shaq really but other good defensive team players like rick fox, horry and to a lesser extent george.

kobe on certain posessions can still play that great defense the one thing though i notice is that kobe can get away with a lot of physical play that most players would get whistled for so that helps his game a lot.

kobe being on the all-defensive teams of late is a joke when you have players like battier not making it, but to say he is not a good defensive player is also a joke.

all defensive teams are really popularity contests if you have one stellar defensive year you'll keep making it i mean raja bell and larry hughes were on first teams before.

glad to see shane get some well-deserved recognition this year

 

Battier is the best 1 on 1 defender in the league..he gets the hand in the face but for some reason bruce *** bowen is considered the best. It ticks me off how he injures so many players, kicking them all over and then sticks his hands in the air like he never did anything. I'm just glad TMAC lit him up in the 13 pts 33 sec comeback vs the spurs...

 

If Kevin Garnett does win DPOY, that would be the only award I guessed correctly before the season.

 

If Battier doesn't get a spot on the 1st team All-D, then something is indeed terribly wrong and unjust.

 

Excellent said. Kobe was a great defender early in his career because he didnt need to carry the offensive load playing with shaq. These past few season, he still play good defense but not great! And he being on the all-defensive teams of late simply because of his past reputations is in fact a joke and not fair to other players like BAttier!

 

where is marion, kidd and wade? Butler?

Mutombo should get some honorable mention, if the list includes jeff foster, diop and perkins (whos numbers are inflated anyway because of KG)

raja bell does not play defense, all he do is bang and whack the opposition, its all physical plays.

I cant believe there is some people on the board that things rafer alston is a top rank defender.

Come on, he cant guard players that are bigger and stronger than him, i.e. baron davis, billups, deron williams

and his a liability when the player he is guarding them him is fast and able to shoot well, i.e. harris, terry, parker, ford, paul, nash, and the list goes on and on and on.

i'm not asking him to lock them up, but to consider him as a good defender, he have to hold them to below their average numbers right? Going by the numbers, his a average defender. nothing more than that.

Chris Paul-
Season 21/11.5
(Rox) 22.75/10.75

Deron Williams-
Season 19.1/10.6
(Rox) 17.5/12.5

Baron Davis
Season 22/7.6
(rox) 24.5/6.25

tony parker
Season 18.4/5.8
(rox) 18.25/4.25

Rajon rondo
Season 10.4/5
(rox) 10.5/5.5

Steve nash
season 17.3/11.2
(rox) 21/8.67

Jason terry
season 15/3.2
(rox) 16/3.25

 

Kobe only shuts down whomever he needs to. He plays the best defense on Tracy McGrady I've ever seen.

 

thats amazing that the Chuck Wagon got that sort of recognition.

not sure its even deserved in this case??

 

Good point...I agree. The only knock is to me it just seems like he fouls so much, but that could be just me.

True!

I disagree...Chuck is seen getting the ball in the very high post and then dishes it off and almost every time he does that he either turns the ball over or alston or Bjax come around him to get the ball. Chuck is not a scorer...but hes not suppose to miss those layups right by the rim. That is unacceptable. Those are easy 2 points in the paint that we can't get back. Bruce Bowen does consistently hit that three in the corner so I would count him as an offensive contributor.

Well maybe im taking this literally but I couldnt compare Micheal Beasley to Chuck either. Common Beasley is better than chuck hands down on both ends of the floor. The fact that Hibbert is known for his passing ability and his ability to defend are his standouts. I am not an advocate of hibbert, but I can tell you that if he gets enough PT, he can average the same amount of rebounds and have the same impact(besides taking charges which chuck does well)

not judging future NBA players to current NBA players can't be a universal rule because there are some individuals who can translate what they do best to the next level...but I guess it would seem naive but still

 

Kobe gets on the all defensive teams more on reputation these days than his actual play. He takes way too many chances going for the spectacular steal and leaving his team at a disadvantage. He'll try playing lock down defense about 5 possesions a game and thats it.

 

If you are trying to say that Beasley is better than Chuck combined on both ends of the floor, that's a possibility. But, no way to prove it until Beasley plays in the NBA. If you are trying to say Beasley is a better offensive player and a better defensive player than Hayes, you are mistaken. Beasley couldn't hold Hayes' jockstrap defensively. Few players can, and that is at the NBA level.


And your statements about Hibbert are very questionable. Hibbert is not nearly as quick as Hayes. Besides as a big, it is naturally going to take him longer to slide and plant for the charge, not to mention, because of his size, he will be at a disadvantage in that aspect because of the officiating. Hibbert, to me, represents another backup big man in the NBA. Just another slow, average to below average athlete, with a mediocre skill set. He seems like a real good kid. But not worth a first round pick on a team where he is going to get 10 minutes max on some nights and that is only if he actually proves he can play against the athleticism and skills of NBA players. Hayes is a proven commodity.

BTW, Chuck is getting much better at seeing the floor from the high post and dishing the ball. Chuck is smart, smart, smart.

Once our team understands the Adelman offense better, when Chuck receives the ball up high and the defense fades off of him, he will just dribble right down to where they are and throw the little soft pass to a cutting guard that will use him as a pick to launch the 15 footer with ease. Very simple play. Chuck has the ball out high, the low post player (Scola or Landry) moves out to set the pick for the wing player (McGrady, Luther, etc.), Chuck dribbles into the paint area as the defense slacks off on him to eliminate the cushion they are giving him. Wing player scrapes off defender with the pick and runs to the FT area. Chuck has the choice of dishing to him for the easy 15 footer, or if his defender starts to show to help, he can duck under for the layin, or if the pick player's man overplays the pick to stop the wing, Chuck can dish to the picker coming back to the basket with a smaller guard defender on him. Chuck is a very good passer. Not to mention, if he is going against a bigger defender facing up with the post empty, he has the ability to drive around the defender for the layin, the 4th option off him having the ball high.

All this stuff has not been implemented yet. Like we all know, we are probably only running about 20% of Adelman's offense. His offense is designed to give every player on the floor multiple options when they have the ball in their hands and to put the ball in their hands with options they can execute. Hayes is already an effective player on the defensive end. I'm not saying he's a starter or a star. But he's a very good contributor to a winning basketball team. And he's going to get better. Because he is smart, smart, smart and Adelman is smart, smart, smart and Adelman will figure out how to put him in positions offensively where he can be much more effective than just finding open space and getting the junk shots with the defense flying at him.

The whole idea that Hayes is a turnover machine is garbage too. He's got one of the lowest turnover rates per minutes played of anyone on the team.