I'm watching espn classics, and John is featured. I admit I'm biased as hell, but I think Elway is the greatest QB ever. Better than Marino, better than Montana. Elway's stats aren't near as gaudy as Marino's, but he played in a conservative offense and cold weather. Anyone else agree?
I'm biased in the sense that I was an Oilers fan, and hate the guy. I honestly think he is not THAT great. Maybe it was because he didn't win until his role was to hand the ball off to TD. I know that he didn't have much support around him, in the 80s. I guess the fact that he didn't have the nice numbers is why I don't like him much.
Physically, Elway is the best QB I have ever seen...However, there is a lot more to sports than the physical, especially being a QB, and that is why Joe Montana is easily the best QB of the modern era. Most experts agree...
Some of the best quarterbacks come from nowhere... almost. 1960s: Johnny Unitas/Colts -- undrafted FA 1970s: Jim Hart/Cardinals-- undrafted FA 1980s: Warren Moon/Oilers... undrafted FA 1990s: Joe Montana/49ers-- 3rd round pick 2000s: Kurt Warner/Rams-- undrafted FA How do you figure that?
gr8-1: You have my undying admiration for what it is worth. Elway had some of his best seasons once "Satan" er Reeves left. However, under Wade Phillips, the team had no defense and not much of a running game. It was only when Shanahan came in did they try to develop a running game. I remember when they played in those 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and got their ass kicked in each one of them, how puny their Offensive line was. Having an undersized O-line that didn't have the technique that they would later use + below average running game = no chance for them against those physical NFC teams in the Super Bowl. I guess what frustrated me the most about Reeves is that he knew what the Broncos weaknesses were but the f*cker never did anything to correct them. Just look at the teams that Reeves has coached since, other than the Falcons team that reached the Super Bowl, his teams were very conservative on offense & that Falcon team was not the precursor of the Kurt Warner Rams if you see what I'm saying. So, yes, Satan did do a great job in containing Elway, but he did it by not fixing the problems...he just ignored them and hoped that they would go away. That might work for headaches, Satan, but not in the NFL for a team that wants to win a Super Bowl.
Well, I don't think it's THAT big of a reach. I think if Shanhan had called the plays throughout John's career, John would hold almost every QB record in the world.
All you need to know about Reeves is that in the 1992 NFL draft, instead of picking Carl Pickens or a player who would actually HELP Elway, he drafted his replacement in Tommy Maddox. I can't stand Reeves. I hope he gets out of Atlanta fast before he ruins Vick too.
Agreed, and many analysts have said the same exact thing. Rick Reilley in SI: "Put John Elway behind Joe Montana's lines in San Francisco and nothing really changes. Put Montana behind Elway's in Denver, and he's either dead or selling life insurance by age 26."
I never liked Elway. But then, as an Oilers fan, I'm biased . I do think he was a good qb. But his last-second comebacks sort of mask the fact that the wasn't always playing well to begin with.
Common misconception. Once again, look at Reeves. I'm willing to bet that 95% of Elway's comebacks came under Reeves. The reason? We'd have 58 minutes of "hand the ball of to Sammy Winder, the slowest RB in the history of the world, and have him go around tackle!" Finally, in the last two minutes of the game, Reeves would let Elway call his own plays.
Exactly plus don't forget that Elway never had the advantage of having a great defense playing for him. Even when the Broncos won back-to-back Super Bowls, their defense was hardly known as a defensive juggernaut. The 49ers, on the other hand, ALWAYS had a good to great defense for Montana, especially from 1984 and on. Fortunately, the Broncos offense under Shanahan with Kubiak as O-Coordinator was so explosive, that they could get away with an average defense that specialized in big plays (Greg Robinson was the architect of that philosophy...thank God he's gone). Montana was great, but he was extremely lucky and fortunate to have Bill Walsh and a great O-Line and defense on his side plus the greatest WR of all-time in Jerry Rice. What did Elway have under Reeves? Like Nuggets4 said, Sammy Winder? You gotta be kidding me...what a disadvantage for Elway. It is a tribute to how great he really was that he was able to keep playing and get back to the Super Bowl and win it not once but twice and get the MVP to boot. Maybe Montana could have survived if he was in Elway's shoes, but not many others would have. It's like that one quote - they would be selling insurance when they were 26.
No doubt about it, I think Reeves held him down. He played under Mike when he was already past his prime. Also, I think it's hardedr to throw in cold weather. Man, if Shanahan had gotten a hold of John at 25 instead of 35. Also, Sammy Winder ain't the half of it. The 3 amigos were awful once they left Denver. Gerald Wilhite, Gene Lang. Do those names sound familiar? Didn't think so. Montana had a great supporting cast.
I remeber when the vikings traded on O-linemen, Zimmerman. For one of the three amegos. I forget who, but the vikings cut the WR. They were sorley disapointed in his play. the Broncos resign him and he Gains over 800 yards receiving that year. Elway was one of the top 3 if not the top Qb of all time. I dont even like the denver donkeys. But the fact is Elway is as close as I have ever seen to a one man team in football. he was amazing
I think Mark Jackson ended up in Minnesota, but not via trade. We sent a first rounder to Minnesota for Zimmerman. The greatest thing Wade Phillips did for this franchise.
I don't remember any of the 3 amigos making noise outside of Denver. WEll, I think Vance got some negative publicity. Remarkable, all 3 of them were 5'10" or under. Not exactly prototypes. Merrill Hoge once said in 1997 or 1998 that he asked nfl players what quarterback they would want on their team, Marino or Elway, and to a man, they said Elway.
The Broncos in Elway's heyday got pounded by deeper better teams. I don't think it is fair to blame Elway or Reeves for that matter. Don Shula is considered one of the best coaches ever, and he never won it all with Dan Marino. Until the salary cap and Green Bays recent superbowl team, you had to have such a great overall football team to win the superbowl. It was no shame in not getting over the hump no matter how great of individual player you might have had (Elway, Marino, Campbell, Thurmon Thomas, Simpson). Just my opinion, but I don't think the 49ers would have skipped a beat with Elway or Marino back there instead of Montana. But Montana was great and has the hardware to back it up, you can't debate about Montana's record in the clutch. Further, IMO Elway did dominate a football game more as an individual that any player I have seen. But Danny also produced a pretty awesume feat in being the only guy to defeat the 85 Bears.
