Jason Stark Rips Uncle Drayton

given that seattle's in a smaller market and tougher division and drayton has benifited from hometown guys wanting to be in houston, I'd say seattle has more than held their own

 

There really isn't a significant difference in market size between the Mariners and the Astros.

 

At times the AL West is tough; at times it is absolutely laughable. I pulled up 2005, for example, and the AL West was a little *worse* the NL Central.

Also, the "Drayton gets hometown discounts" excuse is just stupid. Baseball players hail from all over the nation; I'm sure other owners long ago learned to dangle that carrot. Why should McLane be discredited for using it effectively?

 

serious question (not trying to argue)...when, besides the Clemens contract, did we really get a "hometown discount"? Pettite's contract was for fair market value...

 

Details, details.

 

The results of the Drayton era are incontestable, but the warning signs that the organization has problems are clear. I think Drayton is bashed justifiably when he acts like George Steinbrenner did in the 70's and 80's. The turnover in managers and coaches in recent years is alarming. They won't be able to get quality baseball people to work for the team if there is a perception that the owner is meddlesome and scapegoats his employees. The timing and manner of the firings yesterday makes it look like the marketing arm of the franchise is running the baseball side. The emphasis on splashy free agent signings at the expense of maintaining a top rank farm and scouting system is another reason people like me are concerned. I am also worried that the presence that the Astros had in Latin America has been compromised in recent years and that the Astros have not made *any* inroads into the Asian baseball market to pull some of that talent this way. I just think that as a rule of thumb, listening too closely to the fans about how to construct a team will get you into more trouble than it is worth. Fans should stick to decisions about what kind of nachos and ice cream to serve at the ballpark.

 

I think this is the perfect take on the "reasons for concern" side of the argument. There are a lot of very legitimate concerns here - we'll see how/if they get addressed over the next few years. It does appear the organization has lost some of the focus that made it such a great, fundamentally sound organization the last decade.

 

RIET, i can't keep up with your ever-changing standards of what you consider a model owner; you've bounced from one ideal to the next, continually changing to suite a conclusion you drew long ago that has since proven dated.

you've contradicted yourself repeatedly and drawn conclusions that are obviously being run through a narrow filter. i no longer possess even an ounce of interest in continuing to try and sort out your twisted logic.

so i'm going to assume there's simply something else here at play that i don't know about, some axe you have to grind with drayton mcclane, and leave it be. because the other conclusion i've drawn from this exchange is far more insulting...

 

drayton does, of late, have the air of desperation. i understood building around whatever remaining years you had with left with biggio and bagwell, and the arrival of pettitte/clemens was an equal (and fortunate) boom for both the baseball and pr side of things.

but this winter, they seemed steeped in a vat of denial. and while i appreciate the approach in theoy, drayton's continued bristling at the notion of rebuilding... if it's anything more than a public face, it's concerning.

at the same time, few openings in baseball - gm or manager - offer you berkman, lee, pence and oswalt. and while i know it's not *easy*, it's certainly *easier* to build something here than, say in baltimore. so i think it'll attract top talent.

 

...speaking of bad, meddlesome owners. Baltimore has a history of great fandom while Houston doesn't. Those two owners are going in opposite directions re: fan support.

 

The conclusion Ive drawn is you choose to attack anything you disagree

Dismiss anything negative about Drayton McLane despite several articles about his controlling nature, interference with personnel decision, and unwillingness to pay for draft choices

You think Ive got some "axe" to grind - which is bizarre . We're fans and I don't know him personally. Ive seen his McLane 18 wheelers on the road and they've been safe drivers.

You dismiss Jayson Stark's article as someone with an ulterior motive despite his status as one of the best writers in baseball (he has an axe to grind?)

Hunsicker was "competent" despite overwhelming evidence that he's one of the best GM's in the league.

It's "convenient" that he wanted to GM for Tampa Bay because his family lives there.

You hate Bob McNair despite him never drafting a player, spending tons of money on personnel, and having a franchise that is how many years old?

You think Les Alexander runs the worst sports organization in the city despite being the only owner to bring 2 World Championships to this town??? He could never win another game the next several years and still have more championships than Drayton.

And of course the personal attacks for anyone who points these things out.

Here's the question and I'll make it very simple for you:

Do you believe an owner with a reputation for meddling in his GM's business is a better owner than someone who sits back and lets professionals do their job?

And you think Im in Bizarro world??

Jayson Stark and Peter Gammons. You're a better judge than they are.
Hilarious comment below.

OPEN SEASON
Gammons takes shot at McLane
Tom FitzGerald

ESPN's Peter Gammons calls the Astros' Drayton McLane one of the worst owners in baseball. "McLane is a wonderful man," says Gammons, "but he doesn't understand baseball. He needs subtitles for it."

 

Its unfortunate that Stark has a better idea of what is going on with the Astros organization than most of the writers for the Chron. Of course he is one of the best writers for baseball, so I guess I should expect it from him.

I just feel like his article is dead on. Whether you agree with the move or not, the reasons he is giving for firing these guys are just terrible. Not only this, the timing was also terrible. I don't know where I stood with Garner, but the guy deserved more than this. He has been classy throughout, and I just hate the way he was shoved out the door.

With Stark writing about Drayton being meddlesome, if it isn't already widespread news, it will be. That is unfortunate, because this may keep some self-respecting GMs away from Houston, which is the last thing we need.

 

You have to remember that Starks used to write for Baseball America.

Wasn't it widely known that the Astros drafted Nevin over Hammonds because Drayton didn't want to spend the money on Hammonds.

Or when they drafted Tony Mcknight in the 1st round because he would demand less money even though the Astrsos scouts thought he was 2nd round material

Or the whole fiasco with Drew Stubbs (which was highly publicized so then he gave big signing money to Troy Patton and Jimmy Bartheimer)

Or the Astros not signing their 3rd and 4th round picks this year?

Wait....none of these things happened.

 

Neither type is the preferred owner. You want an owner who meddles enough to know whats going on, but doesn't prevent day to day operations from occuring. If the owner sits back, you end up with Capers and CC for 5 years because he doesn't know when things aren't right. If the owner is too involved in the day to day functions, the GM can't get his work done and his good work gets screwed up.

 

I was never a big Charley Casserly fan but he had his supporters in the league prior to joining the Texans.

McNair could have reasonably assumed he knew what he was doing.

Yes the Texans sucked but you have to give McNair a pass and here's why:

1. We had extremely bad luck with the draft. Vick was the obvious choice but he escaped the year before because he didn't want to play for an expansion team. That draft was very weak and no way were we going to trade down. We needed a "face" for the franchise and unfortunately it was Carr.

2. By the 3rd year we were 7-9. That's pretty dang good for an expansion team. Im sure almost everybody thought we were headed in the right direction.

3. Once we hit rock bottom, McNair acted and got rid of Capers and eventually Casserly.

4. He trusts his personnel will do the right thing and realizes they know more about football than he does.

 

First of all, I couldn't care less what Gammons thinks.

Second, it's pretty well known that Drayton bought the team knowing nothing about the game. I think it was Dierker who tells the story in his book about Drayton asking what it would take to get to 135 wins soon after he took over.

But none of that is that big of a deal. Drayton put a good-to-great baseball product out in front of us fans for 13 of the past 15 years. Those results are what matters.

 

1. If he knows nothing about baseball, why does he have a reputation of being a meddlesome owner? Or is Stark and all of the people in the league he talks with lying?

2. If you are completely results based, tell me what you see for this team down the road. Serious question.

With our current talent makeup, our somewhat limited payroll, our minor league prospects - do you see us having the same kind of success we've had?

 

It IS unbelivable that the Astros can be drawing over 30,000 NOW. Back in '86- first place, pre All Star break- drawing 6,500-8,500 for weekday games in the air-conditioned comfoort of the Dome. Speaking of- anybody else noticed that Drayton is more than a little chinchy in the A?C at Enroil?

 

I don't give McNair a pass. He made a mistake in his rookie year and he got involved with the team to correct his mistake. You need to let the professionals do their jobs, but you don't trust them blindly. Rudy and CD got a lot of trust from Les, but they stepped up and earned it.

One would think baseball owners would be more involved more because there is no salary cap. McLane has done good things for Houston baseball before the 2007 season. The Astros organization isn't in good shape now, but has been for most of McLane's tenure. GM's and coaches have proven that a winning environment can happen under McLane.

I'm not a big fan of Garner's and have always thought he made it harder for the players than it should have been. I don't know how good an owner McLane is, but he at least is giving himself a chance to correct mistakes by bringing in a new GM and Manager. Hopefully he hires a GM that can manipulate him into making the right decisions.

 

If Gerry Hunsicker is to be believed, that can be a tiring task over the years.

I agree with your post in principle, though.