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Will we go to war with Iran?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Mar 16, 2006.

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Will we go to war with Iran?

  1. Yes

    32.7%
  2. No

    67.3%
  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Creepy, I think it is just threads on war, nothing that personal.
     
  2. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Um, generally when someone posts to you - answering the post is the normal response. How many different people in different ways have to call you out for your silly analogy, lol?

    Keep braying, donkey...

    [​IMG]

    I'm a gangsta, gangsta
     
  3. CreepyFloyd

    CreepyFloyd Member

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    Shhhhhh....Pavlov says be quiet

    [​IMG]
     
  4. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    I fixed it to be a little more appropriate for your tastes.
     
  5. CreepyFloyd

    CreepyFloyd Member

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    oh no hayes, the personal accusations

    the bell is ringing, time for you to salivate

    [​IMG]

    when are you going to join the military and practice what you preach?
     
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    [​IMG]
    Creepy, Livin' in a Gangsta's paradise.
     
  7. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    The only way there won't be a surgical strike along with a full scale special forces operation(already underway and supposedly excluding Israel) is if some accord through diplomacy via the Chinese is reached.China and Iran are inexorably linked...But it is in everyone's best interest to let the spice flow and for an uneasy peace w/plenty of sabre rattling to continue.The price of oil will continue to rise.Conversely,if we take out the reactors,noone is going to do a darn thing.....and the price of oil will cont.to rise..get it.
     
  8. CreepyFloyd

    CreepyFloyd Member

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    So are you salivating?

    This song goes out to you hayes:

    Artist: Akon
    Song: Lonely

    Lonely im so lonely,
    I have nobody,
    To call my owwnnn
    Im so lonely, im mr. Lonely
    I have nobody,
    To call my owwnnn
    Im so lonely,

    Yo this one here goes out to all my playas out there ya kno got to have one good girl whose always been there like ya
    Kno took all the bull**** then one day she cant take it no more and decides to leave

    I wont up in the middle of the night and I noticed my girl wasn't by my side, coulda sworn I was dreamin, for her I was
    Feenin, so I hadda take a little ride, back tracking ova these few years, tryna figure out wat I do to make it go bad, cuz
    Ever since my girl left me, my whole left life came crashin

    Im so lonely (so lonely),
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own) girl

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own) girl

    Cant belive I hadda girl like you and I just let you walk right outta my life, after all I put u thru u still stuck
    Around and stayed by my side, what really hurt me is I broke ur heart, baby you were a good girl and I had no right, I
    Really wanna make things right, cuz without u in my life girl

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody to call my own)
    To call my own (to call my own) girl

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own) girl

    Been all about the world ain't neva met a girl that can take the things that you been through
    Never thought the day would come where you would get up and run and I would be out chasing u
    Cuz aint nowhere in the globe id rather be, aint noone in the globe id rather see then the girl of my dreams that made me
    Be so happy but now so lonely

    So lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own)

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own) girrll

    Never thought that id be alone, I didnt hope you'd be gone this long, I jus want u to come home, so stop playing girl and
    Come on home (come on home), baby girl I didn't mean to shout, I want me and you to work it out, I never wished Id ever
    Hurt my baby, and its drivin me crazy cuz...

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own)

    Im so lonely (so lonely)
    Im mr. Lonely (mr. Lonely)
    I have nobody (I have nobody)
    To call my own (to call my own) girll

    Lonely, so lonely
    So lonely, (so lonely),
    Mr. Lonely, so lonely
    So lonely, so lonely, (so lonely), Mr. Lonely
     
  9. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    ...and when I say take out the reactors I don't mean with tactical nukes...conventional weapons will do just fine now.
     
  10. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    The idea of a nuclear Iran with economic sanctions is unacceptable.
     
  11. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    Except Dr. what about Iran's Doomsday device? You know if that goes off we might be facing a mine shaft gap!
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    An MJ reference or two, a Coolio reference, and a lot more...I give this thread 5 stars!
     
  13. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1192578,00.html

    A New Gesture From Iran?

    A top Iranian official, in an open letter given to TIME, offers what could be a starting point for negotiations

    The White House has brushed aside a new letter from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to President Bush that was designed, according to a senior Iranian official, to offer "new ways for getting out of the current, fragile international situation," a reference to the impasse between the two countries over Iran's alleged drive to develop nuclear weapons.

    The letter, a 17-page discourse on everything from religion to history and politics, was dismissed by Administration officials as a last-minute attempt by Iran to divide members of the U.N. Security Council, who are considering whether to impose sanctions on Iran. "This letter is not the place that one would find an opening to engage on the nuclear issue or anything of the sort," said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

    But a second document, written by a top Iranian official and given to TIME just before Ahmadinejad's letter was made public, offers a more concrete foundation for negotiations to resolve the nuclear impasse. In the two-page memorandum, intended for publication in the West, Hassan Rohani,representative of the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khameini, on the Supreme National Security Council (SNSC) and Iran's former top nuclear negotiator, defends Iran's nuclear posture, decries American bullying, and puts forward a plan to remove the nuclear issue from the U.N. Security Council and return it to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna, a long-standing Iranian goal.

    The letter also offers some specific Iranian starting points for negotiation. Rohani said Iran would "consider ratifying the Additional Protocol, which provides for intrusive and snap inspections," and that it would also "address the question of preventing 'break-out'" — or abandonement of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Independent nuclear experts consulted by TIME said these proposals were "hopeful" signs. p> However, on the key U.S. demand that Iran forgo uranium enrichment on its own soil, because of international fears the process would permit Tehran to develop weapons-grade fissile material, Rohani said Iran would agree only "to negotiate with the IAEA and states concerned about the scope and timing of its industrial-scale uranium enrichment." And while Rohani promised that "Iran would accept an IAEA verifiable cap on enrichment limit of reactor grade uranium" on Iranian territory, that would not meet the concerns of the U.S. and most of its European allies.

    Rohani also pledged that "Iran would accept an IAEA verifiable cap on the production of UF6 — uranium hexafluoride, which is used for enrichment." Finally, Rohani promised that "Iran and the IAEA would agree on terms of the continuous presence of inspectors in Iran to verify credibly that no diversion takes place."

    In Iran's shifting political alliances, Rohani , who was long associated with the reformist government of former President Mohammad Khatami. has often been classified as a "moderate." Ousted as Iran's chief negotiator last year by incoming hardline President Ahmadinejad, he has continued to speak out on nuclear issues, often arguing for a less confrontational line, while hewing to Iran's strategic goal of nuclear development, including the domestic enrichment opposed by the U.S. and its allies.

    But his views carry weight, because Rohani, who served for 16 years as the top official at the SNSC, has been close to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameini. "In the context of Iran's domestic politics, which is the driving force behind Iran's nuclear initiative, Rohani's proposals are significant because they have the imprimatur of the Supreme Leader, who would have approved them in advance," says William Samii, the longtime senior Iran analyst at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.

    "The important, if implicit message to Washington in Rohani's declaration," says Samii, "is you may not like hardline President Ahmadinejad, but we do have more pragmatic leaders with concrete proposals, like Rohani, whom you have known for years, and whom you can deal with now if you want. His proposals amount to recognition of Washington's concerns. "

    Other experts note there is still a long way to go toward a resolution of the impasse. "Rohani offers the possibility of heading off a confrontation that could end in military conflict," notes David Albright, president of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS). "But Iran will have to give up more than what Rohani is offering to achieve a settlement, because the two sides are still far apart."

    "Rohani recognizes that the international community has a problem with the domestic enrichment of uranium inside Iran — but he's offering steps to deal with that which are probably inadequate," Albright added. "On the other hand, there is a need for cooler heads on all sides right now, and Rohani's offer should be looked at seriously and explored to see if it is genuine and has the support of the Supreme Leader."

    Senator Joseph Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee noted: "If this is Iran's position, there may be something to build on, but after two decades of deception, and outrageous threats from its president, Iran has to do much more than Rohani suggests to regain the world's trust. For our part, we should talk directly to Tehran, as we did with the Soviet Union during the Cold War."
     
  14. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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  15. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    "Comrade Wolf" And The Mullahs

    By Patrick J. Buchanan

    05/12/06 "Post Chronicle" -- In the 27 years since the Iranian Revolution, the United States has launched air strikes on Libya, invaded Grenada, put Marines in Lebanon, and run air strikes in the Bekaa Valley and Chouf Mountains in retaliation for the Beirut bombing.

    We invaded Panama, launched Desert Storm to liberate Kuwait, and put troops into Somalia. Under Clinton, we occupied Haiti, fired cruise missiles into Sudan, intervened in Bosnia, conducted bombing strikes on Iraq, and launched a 78-day bombing campaign against Serbia, a nation that never attacked us. Then, we put troops into Kosovo.

    After the Soviet Union stood down in Eastern Europe, we moved NATO into Poland and the Baltic states and established U.S. bases in former provinces of Russia's in Central Asia.

    Under Bush II, we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, though it appears Saddam neither had weapons of mass destruction nor played a role in 9-11.

    Yet, in this same quarter century, when the U.S. military has been so busy it is said to be overstretched and exhausted, Iran has invaded not one neighbor and fought but one war: an eight-year war with Iraq where she was the victim of aggression. And in that war of aggression against Iran, we supported the aggressor.

    Hence, when Iran says that even as we have grievances against her, she has grievances against us, does Iran not have at least a small point? And when Russian President Putin calls Bush's America "Comrade Wolf", does he not have at least a small patch of ground on which to stand?

    Which brings me to the point: There is no reason to believe Iran wants war with us. If she did want war with America, she could have had it any time in the last 27 years. If she did want war with America, all the old ayatollah had to do was continue holding those American hostages after Ronald Reagan raised his right hand. He didn't. As Reagan recited the oath, the hostages were clearing Iranian air space.

    In all those years, Iran has never attacked the United States and has been tied to but one terror attack against us: the Khobar Towers 10 years ago. No evidence has been found that Iran had any role in 9-11, the first attack on the World Trade Center, the suicide attack on the U.S.S. Cole or the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.

    Comes the reply. Iran was almost surely behind the bombing of the U.S. embassy and Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983 and the hostage-taking of the Reagan era. Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas, and plotted the bombing of the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, and Herr Ahmadinejad routinely promises the eradication of Israel.

    But if he wants a war with Israel, he could have it tomorrow by launching rockets. If he wants war with America, Bush and Cheney will accommodate him. He has done neither.

    Ahmadinejad is behaving like a man provoking us to hit him, but not too hard, so he can play the "victim" of U.S. "aggression" without winding up in the hospital or the morgue.

    For while Iran's regime might benefit from heroically enduring U.S. strikes to destroy its nuclear facilities -- none of which is near producing atom-bomb material -- a major war would be a disaster for Iran. Not only would the regime be denuded of modern weapons, it would be set back decades to where the Arabs, Azeris, Baluchis and Kurds might try to break the country up, even as Iraq is breaking up.

    But this would be a disaster for the United States as well. An attack on Iran would unify Persians in hatred of America, the way Pearl Harbor unified Americans. And a breakup of Iran could create a new archipelago of terrorist training camps across the Middle East.

    What we are getting at is that there is common ground between the United States and Iran. Neither of us would benefit from a major war. Both of us benefit if there is a reliable flow of oil and gas out of the Gulf and Central Asia. Neither of us wants to see the return of the Taliban or rise of al-Qaida, which is anti-Shiite. In his 18-page letter, Ahmadinejad powerfully condemned the massacre of 9-11.

    And Tehran must be having second thoughts about whether to go nuclear when that could mean Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Egypt might follow suit, and the United States and Israel would put a hair trigger on their missile arsenals, and target them on Tehran.

    Better to talk. To test the waters, President Bush might take up Ahmadinejad's missive, manifest the same respect for Islam that he showed for Jesus of Nazareth, rebut his attacks on America and lay down what Bush would like to see in a future relationship with Iran.

    We have much to talk about: terror, nuclear power, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, oil, what we owe Iran and what Iran owes us.

    COPYRIGHT 2006 CREATORS SYNDICATE INC.
     

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