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More journalists killed in Iraq than Vietnam

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    I must be particularly dense today...but i think i'm with JV here...I don't see anthing other than a factoid. A tragic one -- for those involved -- but i'm still looking for what 'agenda' the article has. What's your take?
     
  2. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    I don't think this is a fun topic, but what's there to debate about this? :confused:
     
  3. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    That is where I find fault with the article. While it is truly tragic that 66 journalists have lost their lives, it is not a fair comparison to wars of the past. The article should have provided more details with respect to the number of journalists covering the war, the number of media outlets covering this war, the greatly increased "opportunities" the journalists are provided with respect to proximity to the action, and other various aspects that differentiate these wars.

    At face value it is just a scorecard comparison.
     
  4. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Just by looking at the two indices alone, less than 2.5 years into the War, the total deaths and the rate of deaths of journalists in this War already exceed those of any other wars in recent memory. Isn't that disturbing?

    I agree it's probable that a 'free-for-all terrorist' type war may contribute to more journalist deaths than a traditional territorial war. But it sill pales in comparison to other 'lawless' wars, as cited in the article.

    [​IMG]
     
    #24 wnes, Aug 29, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2005
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Agreed. Even the "scorecard" is scoring a game of soccer against a game of basketball.
     
  6. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Yep, I agree we need stats on the ones you mentioned.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Sorry if I'm callous about this. I just am. More people are dying in car wrecks in America but you don't post articles about that. Is it somehow more significant to me when a journalist is shot in Iraq than when he dies of a stroke in Cincinnati? If a cousin of yours was a journalist killed in Iraq or something, I could have a different reaction, we could talk about a personal impact. As it is, it's just another statistic. And one that has nothing to do with me. At least with the soldier death tolls, I can take a fraction of the responsibility for their deaths because my representative government sent them there. But, I have no responsibility at all for the journalists there. They went to do a job and were killed doing it. That sucks as much as a construction worker falling off a roof and breaking his neck. Sucks in both cases, but neither have much to do with me. I can appreciate why RSF would report it since it is very important to them, but it kinda ends there.
     
  8. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    I don't think anybody is asking you to take responsibility of the deaths of journalists killed in Iraq. Although a death in one situation is no different than a death somewhere else to mother nature, I have to say some deaths are more significant than others. For one, without journalists reporting a war, we wouldn't have any knowledge about what's going on with the war, unless you choose to believe whatever the government tells you, or better yet, you just don't care. Journalist casualties of war are almost exclusively attributed to man-made causes. Deaths due to freaking highway traffic accidents are being minimized by governments of all sorts and at every levels. This, unfortunately, cannot be said about killing of journalists in war. As far as I have observed, nobody in the Iraq War, not even the US forces, give a damn about the life and death of journalists.

    There are many other threads in D&D, Iraqi War related or not, and there are quite a few threads having various numbers in their themes (e.g., polls and approval ratings). You don't seem to be bothered by their trivialness or uninterestingness. However, the dismissiveness on the alarming stats of journalist deaths in the current War came rather quickly (and casually).

    I find this somewhat interesting.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Actually, my primary motivation was to get you to actually comment on an article you posted. You start a lot of threads here, and often without comment. That drives my batty. I can find articles on the web myself. I read threads in the D&D to see what the members think. Thank you for posting your position on the subject.

    As for the journalists, I really still don't care. Most threads have some tangental relationship to me in that they have to do with my government or with a culture I am a member of. I suppose I only find interesting those things that are related to me (that's pretty egocentric isn't it?). What do you suppose that says about me, or perhaps the D&D?
     
  10. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    What I think is that we don't live in a isolated 'world.' Every thing our government does in our names by means of our tax and/or manpower affects virtually all aspects of our lives, although some may not see immediate or obvious effects. I don't know if you represent a "silent majority" of this country. But just as you think it nuts for me starting that many war-related threads (for instance), I find it hard to stomach the kind of aloofness so many people have shown about this war. No other issues are as important as life and death, IMO. War is simply the highest form of transgression men can asserts on fellow human beings. Journalists are at the forefront of it, 24x7x365, to expose the good, the bad, and the evil, and to awaken the otherwise uninformed general public. Every death of journalist in war is an injustice and a travesty to civilization.
     
  11. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    I'm actually surprised so few journalists were killed in Vietnam.

    I'm not quite as callous as JV here ;). but am not outraged unless you can add some context. Are journalists being targetted? Are they taking foolish risks? Are they under pressure to do so? Are they being left unprotected?

    Tell me at whom I should be outraged? 66 deaths is not trivial...but the war has claimed thousands. It's a dangerous place.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    On the contrary, I appreciate having people who start new threads in the D&D; it expands the bredth of discussion. Just want you to comment is all. And, I'm in total agreement that everything our government does in our name affects us in some way. Right or wrong, the war we're fighting is important.

    However, what journalists do is very different from what my government does. They are emphatically not part of the government. They don't represent me. They are not beholden to me, nor I to them. They provide a service I avail myself of. Just like the worker at a Twinkie factory (that is, if I could bring myself to consume a Twinkie). But, if 66 workers were shot in Twinkie factories, I'd think it was something for Hostess to worry about, not me. Perhaps I don't value the work of journalists as highly as you do.
     

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