I know not all the founding fathers were deists. But a lot has been done by Christian history revisionists to malke them all Christian. And I know Campbell can be spotty and dated. He at least studied more than one religion, and tried to look outside the box. But the truth of the matter is that our most influential founding fathers separated themselves from traditional religious thought, if not Christian thought all together. People now assume they were all traditional Christians. It just wasn't so. If they were traditional Christians, the Constitution would of been completely different. I don't think separation of church and state would exist at all. “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.” “Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” ~ James Madison
1. i don't know if MOST were anything -- Christian, deist or otherwise. i provided some examples though that counter the notion all of these guys were deists, which i hear all the time. 2. i don't think madison's statements run contrary to christian thought...to the contrary, i think they're pretty consistent with it, particularly for a reformed Protestant. i think concepts of separation of church and state are pretty consistent with a faith that empasizes free will. however...i don't think separation of church and state means what you might think it means on a spectrum...i don't think our interpretations today, like a prayer at a football game for example, would be consistent with the kinds of things that freaked out the Founding Fathers about a state-sponsored religion/church.
Perhaps not, but just as in the examples I used (women's suffrage, discrimination, slavery), times have changed. As times change, so must the country. While we were almost exclusively Christian, it was OK to have religion in various places where it is just not acceptable as the country becomes more religiously diverse.
that's fine. truthfully, i don't care that much. i wish Christianity were pushed to the fringe a little more instead of being just part of the rest. might make those who call themselves Christians consider the claims of Christ in their own lives a bit more. i'm fine with that, frankly.
And I hear that they were all "Christian", and that this country was founded on traditional religious ideas. These controversies are always over Christian symbols being removed but no other religion. (American Indians have had much more taken away by the Christians). Separation of church and state itself was not traditional. And I really don't know, is a reformed Protestant considered traditional? It sounds like an oxymoron. I just think if the Constitution was composed exclusively of Christian ideas and by nothing but Chrisitans, it would be very evident and would not be debatable at all. In their time the founding fathers might not of freaked out about a prayer at a football game. (But I don't think the American Indians religious beliefs etc. were very well respected back then). And now a lot more religions have come to the table and are players in this country. If the founding fathers were around today, I hope that they would respect Americans of all religious beliefs and not be partial to any of them. I just think a lot Christians in this country are self-centered about their religion. They think this country and the world revolves around them. Their eyes are now being forced open to recognize and truly respect other religions. It can be a painful, traumatic experience. But it's worth it.
Do you mean that the Christians that make up the majority of the US media (and the majority of people who own those companies) are biased against Christians? That is interesting.
all are fair points. by the way..by reformed i mean...of the reformed tradition...reformation, as in Martin Luther. but it's not important, anyway. i would agree that the Native Americans were treated horribly. beyond horribly, actually. i don't relate that to Jesus Christ...or people who earnestly seek to follow his lead. i suppose we're ultimately defining christians differently...i don't think everyone who calls themselves a christian necessarily earnestly seeks to follow Christ. you may be calling those people christian, merely because they call themselves that. i don't know.
