.......Geoff Petrie would trade him and Jason Williams for Jermaine O'Neal, Travis Best, Al Harrington and either Derrick McKey or Austin Croshere, mired until mid-August as a 50 percent base year player....... http://www.nypostonline.com/sports/42133.htm ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
That is an interesting trade. I am not sure Pacers will have enough to compete for ECC, much less the Finals. If this trade does pan out, I do think it will be good for JWill, although I don't have much confidence in Isiah as a coach, he just might be the right mentor for JWill. ------------------ 15 years later... Zoom
daaaamn, good thing he's a free agent cause I don't think the Rocks can put a better deal on the table with the players they have under contract (untouchables excluded). Also, it's Vescey, so you know, it's 99% chance bs. But geez, that trade looks like it's actually balanced. Here's the obligatory post-trade possible line ups. Sac:---------------Indy: Divac--------------Perkins O'neal-------------CWebb Pedra--------------Rose Christie-----------Miller TBest--------------JDubb Pollard------------Tabak Harrington---------Foster Croshere/Mckey-----Bender Hedo---------------Croshere/Mckey Bobby--------------Edney Wow, what a trade. Indy would give up so much young talent, but then again, they have a lot of young talent. [This message has been edited by Kim (edited June 22, 2001).]
This is my take from a Pacers fan perspective.The reason I hate it, basically we give away our best perimeter, all around, and around the basket defender. The Pacers become THE WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM in the league.Why I like it? JWill, if he matures, has the ability to be one of the most effective point guards in the game, as well as, entertaining. Also, Webber is as good now as you hope J.O. will be someday, shotblocking aside.Look at the line up, even if you assume we get a Ewing. JWill-bad defender, Reggie-above average, Jalen-below average, CWebb-average, Ewing-average at this stage. Look at the bench. Austin-below average, JB-bad, Foster-above average, Bruno-bad. We will give up 110 points a game!!!!!! ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
Speed- Team defense is usually much more important than individuals. Take for the example the sixers. They were not known as a great defensive team last year but this year AI played harder on D and committed himself and the entire team became good defensively. A lot has to do with team chemistry. If things are going well everyone plays a litle harder. Even for our Rockets we have some pretty poor (hopefully just youth) defenders, outside of Dream and Anderson. At times we looked horrible defensively but by the end of the year once Dream was playing well we looked pretty good. Obviously a good big man helps, and I still think in the East that Patrick would be one of the better centers. I still am a fan of JW. I sincerely hope he commits himself to being more than a sportscenter hi-lite kid. He has skills but he needs to play harder on D and play smarter on O. Good thing (I agree with you on) is Isiah could be great for him. Also Reggie Miller would definetely get in his face, something he never had in Sacramento. Also I'm a big fan of Jalen Rose, he is truly a talent, who didn't blossom as I though he would this year. Adding C-webb would make you an instant contendor in the East and with Jalen & Miller you have a pretty nice nucleous. Will be interesting to see if it happens.
You didn't watch very many Pacer's games this year, did you? Jalen put together a pretty darn good season. His numbers were almost identical to Francis'. I'd say he "blossomed" well. ------------------ All hail Fadeaway's Cyberfish -- your 2000-2001 BobFinn* Fantasy Basketball League Champions!
When I first saw the trade I thought, "Indiana's gonna gut themselves for Webber," but after Kim posted the potential line-ups, I realized, "Wow, Indiana's a pretty deep team!" You're right, though, they'll need to commit to team defense in a big way. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Yeah great idea, pththththt. The Pacers totally lose their depth here. Why acquire Jason Williams? Best is a far better point guard than Williams and he doesn't yell racial epithets to fans. Al Harrington and Jermaine O'Neal are the future of that franchise. The Pacers don't have a problem w/ their team, they have a problem with their coach. Why would Webber go to Indianapolis? Didn't he say something about an 'exciting' city? Also, Perkins is dying, Miller is a couple of years away from the recall on his teeth. Gee, standing next to Jalen Rose and Jason Williams in two years, when the Pacers have to find a new coach sure sounds more promising than standing next to Rudy T., Steve Francis who's much better than Jason Williams and Cuttino Mobley who's better at his role than Jalen his own. If Webber really does this deal, he's an idiot.
Fadeaway- At the beginning of the year he was being hyped as a second coming of Magic Johnson (since he was suppose to be playing the point forward, and actually more of a big point guard). He did have a nice year, but at the beginning of the year I expected him to have a Kobe-like year. His points did go up a little to over 20 a game from 18 or so the year before, but his FG% did go down. Not saying he didn't have a great year but he didn't put himself into the elite class yet. I really do think at some point he will be in that class, because he has unbelievable skills but he didn't separate himself this year. Of course it could be the result of the team not being too succesful. Possibly if the Pacers would have been better last year, that Jalen may be recognized with the Kobe, Vince, McGradys, Shaqs of the NBA.
I find it interesting that after Indiana made trades to get younger last year that they're now ready to trade that youth potential for Webber. I wonder how Reggie and Jalen feel. ------------------ "All you need is love."
Not to pick a fight. However, his numbers were extraordinary, BUT if you watched Jalen play this year he had mental and defensive breakdowns galore. Now, against the Rockets he went Beserk in the overtime game , BUT after that game his coaches and teammates put it to him for taking bad shots, not playing D, and making bad decisions with the ball. It was noted that after that game his effort seemed to improve, especially in regards to the non stat stuff (i.e. rotating on defense, getting back on D instead of crying to the refs, making the easy pass v. a turnover/thread the needle into the 3rd row, etc.). Addtionally, if you watched the 1st round playoff series v. Phillie, you would have watched Jalen disappear and not provide the leadership that a max salary player should. This isn't saying that Jalen won't come back next year with an understanding of the intangibles and the little things it takes to be a franchise type guy, but last year was a big disappointment despite the 20 pts, 6 assists, and 5 rebounds a game. I guess if you didn't watch the Pacers alot, you would see those stats and say, how didn't he make the allstar team, but the reality is that the stats are wrong, in this case, in measuring the disappointing year JRose had. ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
Amen, Achebe. Preach it! Besides, even if this deal is on the table, it doesn't mean Webber would go for it. The Petrie Dishes can huff and puff all they want to make a trade happen; but Webber has said his decision might be unpopular, but he has to do what he wants. A recent article on Jermaine O'Neal mentioned Indianapolis as being veeeeeeeery white, conservative, and un-hip-hop, so to speak (please, Pacer-fans, don't bash me for this one). And a recent article elsewhere voted Houston as #1 for African Americans. Plus, as Achebe mentioned, Steve + Cat + Mooch. Not one great guard to feed Webb the ball but three. And isn't Webb supposed to be in town real soon? ------------------
Link????and Link???I think I saw an article where Stevie Franchise said that he may be unhappy because Houston is ......very Mexican...... tongue firmly planted in cheek ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
http://www.bskball.com/Rumors.htm This deal would have to wait until mid- August, unless the deal makes a pit stop in Houston due to Austin Croshere's base year status, something Houston can absorb. There have been rumors of Austin ending up in Houston this year to fill the SF void, and there was talk of a sign and trade for Shandon Anderson to Indiana to make this deal happen. With the number of 1st round selections the Rockets hold, and the fact that Indiana looks ready to make a real deal. If things get tight for Webber in Sacramento, don't be surprised if Sacramento-Houston and Indiana all get in bed together........ ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
Evidently not, according to some mystical article written about Jermaine O'Neal. Indy is a city of about a million people that is highly diversified, despite the perception of people who haven't been here or lived here. I would be disappointed if J.O. actually said those things because it smacks of racism. I would rather hope that people would be judged on the content of their character than the color of their skin. Oh well, I just find it funny on these boards when obscure references come up without a link or at least I heard from my moms,cousins,friends neighbor who knows RT that........... Oh well, overall, I doubt that much of any of this thread is based in fact becuase of Vescey. ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/004106.html Speed, there's one of your links. It was cut and pasted by Jeff and I assure you he didn't make this one up. Now, ROXRAN will have to find you the other. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Thanks, I never really doubted that and really don't see the point. My concern as a Pacer fan is if J.O. is not comfortable in his surroundings in Indy and sees it as a negative, then I would be surprised and somewhat dismayed. I still don't discount that possibility, but hope it isn't true. It seems that you assumed that I doubted that Houston is more ethnically diverse than Indy, I don't and it really isn't even a point of contention for me. I, again, try to see past the color of a person and see them for what they are. It isn't an issue with me, but I suppose if you feel that you've proved your point, good for you. I choose to see white people, or whoever, for who they are, not what some stereotype dictates. I don't have to have a certain percentage of people of any kind to dictate how proud or not proud I feel. With the "Mexican" comment, and I don't know how I can say it any more clearly, I was trying to make the point that it is somewhat ridiculous sounding and unfounded to say things without some reference point, especially against an entire race ("white", how about Caucasion). It scares me that, at times, on BBS's that people take whatever someone says as the truth, or they take something and embellish it, or they mis state something that they really meant no ill will by. ------------------ http://jonathanbender.8m.com http://alharrington.8m.com http://jermaineoneal.8m.com
All I know is that you asked for a link about Houston being voted the #1 place for African-American businesses and I delivered. I guess the only problem I MAY have with you is you discounting the fact that Houston is an attractive place to play. ALOT of NBA players live here for a reason. Did you ask for the link or not ? When you said "Link ??? and LInk ????" I assume that you were asking for two links. Your welcome for the link. I'll take your Francis/Mexican comment at face value though. There was no harm in his statement and I'm sure there wasn't any harm in yours. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Speed, Houston is what you would call a melting pot. There are alot of HIspanics, African-Americans, and Asian-Americans. It's diverse. Are you guys receptive to minorities in Indiana ? ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
