Chron: This team still missing many pieces

I've never bought the idea that running a half court offense should keep you from scoring points. If you're taking on a poor defensive team then you should be scoring plain and simple. Playing good defense keeps us in games but slowing it down to a crawl lets other poor teams keep it close in return.

Tmac is supposed to be the "playmaker", right? Well if he's supposed to be a playmaker and create and then be the scorer on top of that that would mean good ball movement. Now, I may be wrong but wouldn't good ball movement give the team some good shots? The only people getting consistent open shots are the ones that aren't making them. At least from what I've seen in my limited viewing capabilities.

As far as who gets the blame I think its a two way street. Some people simply aren't performing in this system. One side is that they are paid to play and need to find a way to work within this system. On the other side the coach needs to alter his system or at least find a way to either gently motivate or bluntly light a fire under the butts of his players, whichever the individual reacts to better. On that note I agree that sticking up for his players and risking a technical on occasion would probably help the coach-player relationship.

I realize back when Hakeem was running the floor, which he did as well as most guards, and Otis was chucking outlet passes like a quarterback and we had people who could run the floor like a young Horry or Cassell even an aging Drexler later on it was easy to run fast breaks. Thing is the offense was still an inside out game. Is Yao good enough to dominate and create mismatches like Dream did? No. Could he be some day? Most likely not, they are too different. So maybe the game has to be more of an outside in game with Tmac starting it. And as for the fast breaks. With Tmac, Sura and Barrett willing to run at any time it shouldn't be this hard. Yao may get drained from running full court too often but he can do it well enough in short intervals.

Bottom line, as was said, the coach coaches and the players play..... but if the players and coaches don't meet on a middle ground it all for nothing.

 

"Quote:
Originally posted by rich_argh
**** lakers


You still root against the Lakers with as much as fervor even with Rudy T there on the sidelines?"

No but i never would want to trade yao to any team

ANY TEAM

thats trading pride away

 

On T-Mac: His scoring is the lowest it's been in 5 years. Fewer looks - sure, BUT his FG% is the lowest it's been his entire career - his three point % is the lowest its been in 5 years, his rebounding is the lowest its been since his rookie year, his assit numbers are down from the last 2 years, etc. He's not playing horribly, but neither is charmin soft Yao. Both have serious improving to do.

 

Regarding whether Howard, Mo Taylor etc. having abiity to score and talent. . They still do. It is just overall they aren't at this point good overall NBA talent.

JVG could let them lose and they would still score 100 pts per game. Except for Yao and Tracy each opponent would outscore their corresponding Rocket at their position. Trouble is that they would still lose 120 to 100 most nights against talented teams. More fun for sure, but the same result.

JVG is playing like in the old days in college before the shot clock. Llittle St. Theresa of the Woods would every now and then freeze the ball and squeak by North Carolina by a score of 19 to 17, though 9 times out of 10. N. Carolina would win 19 to 17.

JVG is doing the NBA, 24 second shot clock version of this. It is one way for the less talented team to have a chance.

 

Reece Gaines is shooting above his career avg.
Jim Jackson is shooting more threes than early in his career, so his FG% is down, but his 3pt% is up.
Padgett's numbers are comperable to his career avgs.
Taylor is somehow rebounding better than his career avg in less minutes, but all his offense has disappeared, including hitting the open 15-18 footer that he used to be good at.
Ward's shooting is down, but he has played for Van Gundy before, so his problems can't be attributed to the coach.
Yao's FT shooting has slipped for some reason, but he is still shooting around his career avg from the field.

The biggest problem is that none of our players has consistantly been a good shooter for their career - except Yao, who is shooting fine - and we want them to hit shots now. We simply do not have good shooters on this team, and sadly, not every NBA player can hit wide open shots. Any offense that provides as many wide open looks as ours is a good one, we just ned to bring in the kinds of players that can hit them consistantly. In place of Taylor, Jackson, and Sura, we need some people like Kurt Thomas, Wally Szczerbiak, and Eddie House. As it is, our superstars are doing the job in drawing the double teams, but then we are needing them to score over the double because the other guys can't hit wide open shots. Some minor changes can create big improvements on this team.

 

What I see on the court is basically a bunch of guys who can only score when it is a layup or dunk. Nets had that kind of team in their recent success. They went uptempo bigtime.

I still wonder why the team does not copy what the Mavs and Kings have on their bench. I think both the Mavs and Kings have shooting coaches. I've always been enamored with how the Kings develop their players. I can't say the same for the Rockets. The brain trust on the Mavericks and Kings' bench is so much greater than the brain trust sitting on the Rockets' bench that it is ludicrous.

 

Mo used to be a very good outside shooter. Yao used to be a decent jumpshooter. Look at them now. Mo can't make anything from outside anymore. Yao is airballing jumpers now. JJ is also no longer Mr. Consistency. I definitely think there is a teamwide problem. Calvin Murphy is no longer there to provide advice to the players on their shooting mechanics. Who's replacing Calvin?

 

Did you just compare our roster makeup to the Nets?

Please tell me you're Kidding.

(I'm so clever.)

 

This is a very good discussion! I fall somewhere in between the "Yao Must Go" folks and the "Fire Van Gundy" camp. The facts, as I see them, are pretty simple:

JVG's coaching ability is not as horrible as folks make it out to be. You can put Phil Jackson on the sideline and nothing will change. This is not an uptempo wide-open offense because this team can't play that style of offense with it's current mix of players. Only T-Mac, Boki & Barnett are capable of running that style of offense. To try to do so would end up getting them killed. JVG understands this and that's why his offense attempts to keep them in games by slowing the game down. He does so in order to give the Rockets their best chance to win. A coach has to structure his offensive/defensive systems around the players he's given. JVG is no different from any other coach in that respect.

If one steps back and really takes a hard look at what JVG is TRYING to do, one would see that JVG is (in theory) trying to do the same things that Larry Brown is doing at Detroit. The big difference here is that JVG does not have Joe Dumars stocking his team so instead of having Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, Wallace, Billups, Coleman, McDyess & co. to work with, JVG has T-Mac, Yao, JJ, Ward/Lue/Barnett/Gaines/Sura (PG by committee), Taylor/Howard/Witherspoon/Padgett (PF by committee) & so on. Clearly, there is a great disparity in the talent here and there's really only so much a coach (or any coach) can do with a team put together like this one.

Yes, Yao could meaner & more aggressive and McGrady should be going buck-ass wild lighting up the scoreboard but both players are trying hard to play team ball on a bad team. Most nights all that's required is for other teams to win is to force the ball out of T-Mac's hands and to front/surround Yao and dare the rest of this team to beat them. More often, than not, they will not do so. Look at the Rockets' offensive numbers: 28th in the league; their opponents are scoring 89.47 ppg vs. 86.05 ppg for the Rockets. Their FG% is 41.9%. They average 15.04 TOs per game vs. 12.85 for their opponents and so on. The facts all point to an average to below average team.

It's easy to point fingers and curse at JVG because he could be more creative with his offensive sets (although I have no idea how) and because he's the man out front taking responsibility for this mess. But that blame has to start at the top of the organization and that means from the owner on down. JVG has only been onboard for 2 years while this mucked up personnel situation has been around for at least the past 10 years (even before that if one studies Rockets' history). JVG should not be held responsible for the bad draft history, questionable trades and dumb & ineffective FA signings that have become the hallmark of this franchise. I suppose that the point that I'm trying to make is that it will take MUCH time and effort to correct what's wrong with this team AND this franchise. Serious changes MUST be made and those have to be from the top down. This organization has got to break out of the cycle of mediocrity that has characterized it since its championship days and that's something that just won't happen during this season. As Rick Flair once said: "Learn to love it or learn to live with it cause that's the it is."

 

I agree with this - and add that its also similar to the model that the Spurs, the team that won the NBA finals BEFORE Detroit, follows this style as well !

the difference in both cases in that Detroit and San Antonio have better personnel to fit that system

I keep saying that JVG took that Knicks to the finals with Spree, Houston and Grand Mama - that was NOT Reilly's team. They pushed on the break and played good D.

the HEAT, during that time, was a grind it out team - but the Knicks beat them.... EVERY YEAR!!!

 

And for the General Manager's record of poor decision-making, he was awarded with a contract extension. Murpy's Law is still at work. I wish I could make millions of dollars of bad decisions and get promoted. It's like bizzario world.

 

Agree 100%!

Iam a HUGE rockets fan. have been since I was like 9. Im 23 now, since I have been a rocket's fan I have either watched on TV, been too, or recored every game since I was 9 yrs old. BUT, I HATE Van Gundy basketball so much in the last 2 seasons I havent even watched 45 games.

If anybody in the front office has eyes to read, hears to ear and brains to comprehend, please PLEASE release us from the prison of Van Gundy ball.

Yes our role players are pitiful. But if you give Rudy T; Cassel (rookie) Robert Horry, Vernon Maxwell, Scott Brookes, Matt Bullard, Mario Elie and Carl Herrea and OT. What. Which of those players stood out as exceptional? Maxwell.....good. But a head case.

Sam was a rookie. Herrera? He wasnt great.

My point is they had one GREAT player. and some par to sub par role players and they took the title.

undy has 2 great players. Either one capible of pulling off 30+ point performances.

Same amount of par to sub par role players and he cant even score over 80 points aginst a HORRID defensive team....Dallas.

Give us anyone....BUT Van Gundy is bad for the NBA. It is 'Ball Hitlers' like him that is killing this League's excitment.

Let the chants ring forth allover this great city FIRE VAN GUNDY! FIRE VAN GUNDY! FIRE VAN GUNDY!

 

Nobody is saying JVG's system can't work. The point IS that it can't work with these players, AND, considering JVG picked these players, well he should be blamed.

Let's assume the the style JVG is trying to implement in an ideal world is the right one - heck, it worked for San Antonio, it worked for Detroit, to a certain extent it worked for the Lakers - they certainly were no fast breaking, high flying, run-n-gun team.

If that is the case, but you don't have the players to be successful at it, you tweak the system for your teams talents, and when you get the players you want, tweak it back to said style.

It is clear that in every sport (well, not football as much) there are perennial winners and perennial losers and once you get in one mold or another it is generally hard to get out of. Even when you do, it may be an abberation (Memphis, the Nets). It is very important to me that the Rockets franchise learn how to win again...we can't afford to spend ANOTHER year in mediocrity (and though we made the playoffs last year, without building on it, you so quickly revert back to loserdom) while we try (potentially unsuccessfully) to get the right guys for the system.

 

Nice post HillBoy! Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

want to take that back?

 

Ok, I'm not saying that.

 

Exactly, it's not exactly like there haven't been players that other teams didn't sign up the next day. Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Armstrong all get cut and not a sniff from the Rox and they show up on playoff contending teams, or how about McDyess who lives in Houston and Detroit picks him up, why did Detroits scouting report say he was worth 6 mill and could help their team. Why didn't CD move at least one of the 4 PFs in the offseason, what did he think he was going to do with 4 PFs. This management sucks, they don't know squat about evaluating talent and they have serious judgement problems.

 

Ward will help our outside shooting, JVG really has lost it

 

Sounds like no Eddie House if Ward comes back. The situation is bleak.