Amen Thompson is the Rockets' REAL franchise player

See that's the problem. We don't want to be a defense-first team. There are no championship trophies for best defense or most rebounds.

What we were promised from day 1 and incessantly afterwards was a WIN-first team. That's what we signed up for. A WIN-first team has no incentive to prioritize defense over offense or defense over winning. Whatever gives you the net benefit is fine with us and I'm sure it's fine with Tilman too.

We can't ignore the fact that Ime joined this team giggling like a little girl about how silly Silas' offense was and that he was going to teach the kids how to play real winning basketball. Well, 3 years in it turns out "winning basketball" on offense means the exact same TS% as Silas plus a crazy amount of very expensive offensive rebounding. So expensive that it locked our hands in FA/trade. Guess what, Silas didn't have a PG either.

Starting Reed, KD and Sengun is no less tenable defensively than starting Amen, Sengun and Jabari offensively. More than any coach I remember us having, Ime defaults to personal bias and favoritism too much. He's done nothing to create a system that suits his players, he runs the same thing for the Celtics, kiddie Rockets and these grown up Rockets. Some coaches prefer to stick to a system, but none more than Udoka. Not even MDA who was willing to go high pace, slow pace, iso, open court, whatever - he just stuck to his principles rather than being rigid across multiple rosters.

Anyway, pointless now, it's too late to change Ime this season. We just have to support what's going on and across our fingers.

 

Honest questions: do you remember how much weaker his handles were just 80 or so games ago? Do you remember how many more unforced errors he was making just 30 games ago? Do you remember when we thought his FT% and 3PT% are both shockingly bad for his position but one of these things improved dramatically?

Have faith dude. Sometimes we're in more of a rush than reality. Ask yourself about the upside. What if they - against your will - gave him 2 more summers to work on the jumper and handle and PG concepts? I know for you that's very late, but if he ends up with a tighter handle, slightly more organization capabilities and a 33% 3PT shot (or 36% on open 3's) at age 25/26 what does that entail? That's almost a max player and whether we like that for our future or not, it's an insanely valuable asset. You can trade him for the guy you like.

I think you've really made your point about Amen but there's no chance he's going to regress so see if there are other aspects to criticize/praise about him.

 

Ime is not doing Amen any favors. Amen would be an all-star if he wasn't asked to be Jason Kidd.

 

KD is a league leader in defensive FG% He just had 2 stocks and was +10 while Ben Simmons Jr was -10.

Where is this narrative KD is a bad defender coming from?

As for Amen I think he should start at PF if Jabari is out and then come off the bench like last year once Jabari comes back. His lack of shooting is hurting the team a lot more because Udoka can't design a good offensive scheme. If we are just gonna let Alpi and KD iso every play they should have shooters around them to allow them to go 1 on 1.

 

I remember Amen having 3 turnovers to 3 assists last night then being rightfully benched in crunch time.

But seriously, when I say that Amen still has time to become an Iguodala type player, that's high praise. That dude was a finals MVP. But the Rockets and everyone on this board need to understand what it took Philly years to figure out, that being you can't build a team around players like Iguodala and you certainly can't pay them like all-stars, especially in this aprons era. I'll be fine with Amen if the Rockets only play him with an actual PG and pay him less than what Sengun got.

 

Dude why do you do this? I wrote a genuine post for you without attacking or dismissing you.

Second time btw.

Sorry about that, I thought maybe there was a nice debate to be had. Not interested in propagandizing the conversation, thanks.

 

Amen's offensive rebounding has dropped too, playing much more away from the basket. He needs to roam more along the baseline, not along the 3pt arc.

 

No disrespect intended. Just trying to clarify that I don't hate Amen - I just hate the hype around him, which includes the blank check Ime gives him every night (except last night).

 

We don't have time for that, we have to make a decision this offseason and hoping for a big shooting leap isn't something I am comfortable with. If we give Amen, let's say, 40M a year, there's a good chance we just killed any hope of being a contender in the next few years.

Again, I don't think he's worth the trouble. Trade him, hope that Alpi and Reed continue to improve and build a roster around them and KD. Get a good haul for him, use our assets, improve the team around our remaining core and we should be good to go. We would have a pretty versatile core, basically any type of player would fit right away.

Building around a non-shooting wing is infinitely harder than building around a non-shooting center. We would have to trade for 2 stretch 5's, trade Alpi, Steve and Capela... is Amen really that good to justify all that?

Again, if he was even an average shooter, he would be my favorite prospect on the team, but there's no hiding from reality. Not being able to shoot makes that much of a difference.

 

They have a good discussion about Amen's role within the team.

 

Couldn't disagree more to be honest. Amen has the highest net rating on this team. The only reason we're able to carry Sengun and Durant defensively is because of the insane defensive impact Amen makes.

I think you'll quickly discover that with Brooks and Amen gone and FVV and Durant declining, we'd be hilariously bad at defense. Sengun would have less protection than he's ever had in his life from the wing and POA defenders. You need an All NBA defender. Those cost a ****-ton of money.

Also, who says there's no time? That sounds like something you're feeling. Nothing like that going on here. Waiting for one of Amen or Sengun to eclipse 33% from 3 is a far better path. Amen would get $30m in the open market last summer, I'm not buying that one guy being overpaid by $10m is the end of us. Nor do I believe that would happen.

I'd take a big look at upgrading Jabari or FVV by attaching our picks.

 

5 years 125 mill.

 

Since we didn't draft a 1A type of player, I feel our best odds at winning rest at the KD timeline. He's 37, we have a 2 to 3 year window at best. That's why I don't think there's much time.

I understand your concerns about defense, but we can focus on 2 way players. Sure, they are hard to get, but we will have more than enough assets to make it work, especially after trading Amen. Reed, KD, Alpi + two good 2 way players should give us a good enough defense while having an excelent offense.

I feel that's a better path than trying to make Alpi and Amen work together or overpaying Amen hoping one of them develops a shot. It most likely won't happen.

 

I don't believe that ....


Just because you change his position doesn't mean teams are going to play him any differently off ball - they are still going to ignore him and double / rotate off of him. Teams are going to live with his shooting and make it more difficult on KD, Sengun (in the paint), Reed, Jabari & Tari.

 

I think it would be really crazy to make massive sacrifices for a 37 year old. I wouldn't build around that.

Two way players is a drop in the bucket. It's so far from any contender level defense. Can't patch that up.

I would rather give Amen and Sengun another summer than freak out over marginally overpaying someone.

I would target start a full rebuild. I would rather trade KD even.

It's just not for me. Not interested in a future based on Sheppard and Sengun and I'm a big fan of both.

 

Seems a little high for Tari.

 

We also don’t have to extend him this summer. We can let him go to RFA the following summer if we want to. Amen is going to get the max. The only question is by whom and in what year. I think the by whom, is certainly the Rockets, unless he gets injured. Stone will not paint us into a corner where someone can offer a contract that we can’t match when he reaches RFA. I’m sure they will try to get him to sign a Sengun type contract, but I doubt seriously he will take it.

 

If he'd had a fully healthy season he could maybe get that kind of money. Given his recurring injury problems, the only way he even comes close to that is if most of the contract is non-guaranteed.

 

Teams can't ignore him if he is in the position to cut. This is why he was so dangerous last season. He lurked around the baseline and sneaked to the dunker spot on the weak side. The opponent had to have a guy on him or he's gonna either get a lob or an offensive rebound off a miss.

He can't do that from the top of the arc, especially not with the ball in his hands.