Amen Extension

Why are we acting like Amen is "learning the PG position" when he was touted as a PG in the draft and played that in OTE?

 

If you go back and watch his games in OTE, they were mostly played in transition. (Which also explains why transition play is when he looks most comfortable.) I don't think he actually had a whole lot of experience playing in NBA-style half court offenses until recently. Even when Fred was off the court his first couple of seasons, it really was mostly Jalen or Aaron Holiday as the primary ballhandlers.

 

Amen was being hyped as some jumbo hyper athletic PG

y’all used to sit here before the draft and act like he had elite court vision as well

yeah, I remember…

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/amen-thompson-tank-thread.319456/page-10#post-14640089

come to find out dude can’t even dribble, does not think like a PG, and can not process the game like a PG should

 

Damn some of those comments are hilarious

 

He was drafted as a PG though, and played PG previously. It's actually not mitigating anything pointing out that he has massively underdeveloped skills because he was playing against high schoolers at college age rather than the G league or actual college. Him and his brother are hyper athletes who had to play against kids to be competitive because their skills are that deficient. That's not at all arguing in their favour, you know?

 

but so what? Amen is a 3/4. If he develops a mid-range shot he can still be an all-nba guy. He’s an elite rebounder and defender. He’s elite around the rim, he’s an elite cutter, elite at put backs, can get to the rim, lob threat. And he’s an above average ball-handler and passer for a 3/4. You don’t have to be a 3-pt shooter to be an all-nba player. Jaylen Brown has averaged 34% over the last 4 seasons for example. Many of us saw Amen as an iggy-type with more upside. We should play him in those spots for the rest of the season. I guarantee his value to the team will increase.

but because there’s been no shooting progression and because he’s not an on-ball guy, he shouldn’t get a max extension. I’m positive they will be able to come to an agreement on a fair extension. But I’m still high on what Amen can become. I just don’t think our organization and this coaching staff is good at developing players. That might be my biggest concern about the organization in general. You can’t even question the development chops of SAS or OKC, but with Houston it’s extremely suspect.

 

I didn’t have my best work either since Scoot Henderson ended up being much worse than I thought he was gonna be, but yeah, Amen was being talked about like he’s some high tier passer and someone who can run a team/offense

 

That's literally the only example in 5 decades and it pertains to a team that was the defending champion who had a top 10 defense the previous season and simply turned it on in the playoffs. They posted the #1 defense in the playoffs easily. The Nuggets similarly were the 3rd best defense in the playoffs.

It's impossible for offense to be more important than defense if this is the standard outcome. Please ask chatGPT or something about it, I think you're probably not aware how frequent this is. There's no way to explain it but to ignore it.

Offense and defense are roughly 24 minutes each. They are roughly the same number of possessions. You have to be top in each to win a title in 99% of NBA history. That has not moved with any rule or any era.

It's a total myth that offense is more important. There's not a shred of evidence for it.

 

Bullshit.

2018 Warriors: 3rd OFF / 11th DEF
1995 Rockets: 7th OFF / 12th DEF (LMAO that you missed that one)

There's 2 more for you. You can't just lie about **** when it's easily searched, you know that right?

 

My guy Mathloom uses literally the same way DD does, unironically Stick to chapters bruv.

 

you can’t bring up someone like Jaylen Brown in an Amen discussion

Jaylen Brown has averaged 34% from deep the past few seasons, but Amen can’t even shoot 20% right now while being left wide open

Jaylen Brown can shoot threes

Jaylen Brown is also competent in the midrange routinely shooting 43+%…Amen is shooting 27% on middies this year, and last year it was a terrible 38%

mind you, for someone like Brown, his percentages are with him being guarded by elite defenders taking all types of turnaround fadeaways, stepbacks, highly contested shots, shots at the end of the clock, etc…with Amen, those percentages are with him not being guarded…no defender even bothers to contest an Amen jump shot

no team would ever have not guarding Jaylen Brown as their strategy

Amen gets guarded like Ben Simmons does

so now you have to have Amen camped out in the dunkers spot or around the paint area as a 3/4, while also having non-shooter Sengun clogging the paint as well

 

Amen's the 5 and Sengun's the 4. Last night it was classic 90's positioning for both guys in those spots. Amen right underneath to clean up the misses whilst Alpi works in the high post. It really did look like they'd travelled back in time how crowded things get.

 

Brother there are plenty of examples the other way around as well.

2020 Lakers - 11th OFF/3rd DEF
2010 Lakers - 11th/4th
2008 Celtics - 10th/1st
2005 Spurs - 8th/1st
2004 Pistons - 18th/2nd
1994 Rockets - 15th/2nd

Using regular season stats also doesn’t always tell the full picture.

 

Which again just proves the point you don't actually need to be top 10 in both at all. Rule completely disproved, kudos.

 

Oh you're in that bipolar mood again. Listen, you're not so important that anyone will bother lying to you. This is a basketball forum. We're not solving world problems and your approval is as meaningless as anyone else's. Calm your t*** as the Brits say.

Do you know how many champions there have been? Did you see where I said 99% in my last post? Do you think finishing 11th and 12th on defense as an exception means there's no standard? Or that anyone would be so stupid as to build a team around an exception? Did you notice that the top offense didn't win in your last two examples so how is offense far more important?

No, you didn't. Because you're in that mood again. And you know exactly when these moods started.

I'm happy to let anyone check the history and determine whether the pattern is 99% true. You can celebrate finding the 1% exceptions.

 

Amen and Sengun may not be able to work together. They are both flawed players. But there’s still a lot of potential upside with both players…maybe not on the same team. I’m certainly not arguing that we’ve drafted well or that the roster is constructed well, or that we’ve developed players well. I’m just saying that Amen can go on to have an amazing career as a 3/4 and I’m still personally a believer.

 

Well, if Amen isn't a point guard.....okay.

We can't call him a shooting guard. Not without ******** our pants laughing.


So, really, as I would have always put it, Amen is the defensive small forward who can get you 4 assists per game when the rest of your roster is healthy / not ad hoc.

 

don’t get me wrong, I think Amen can have a good career as a wing player…I never bought into him being a PG to begin with, that was just the pre-draft propaganda with him

even with his broken jump shot, he can still easily be a top tier role player and could maybe make an ASG or 2 if the team record is amazing

he has an enormous flaw that is more accentuated here due to roster construction

I do think a decision will have to be made eventually…I don’t think you can be taken seriously as a legitimate contender now if 2 of your best players are complete non-factors outside the paint, it’s just way too easy for good playoff teams to defend

 

I think your read on him if he never learns to shoot is probably accurate. Maybe in the right high-paced offense, with enough shooting around him, he could be top 15ish player (similar to what Sengun is now) with some improvement in other areas. But he won't be a true #1 option without a jump shot.

Our biggest difference is I still believe in his ability to turn it around as a shooter. I don't know when that's going to happen, and it makes a huge difference whether it happens at age 25 or age 32. And I don't know if he'll ever be more than just "barely adequate" as a shooter. But I think at some point he's going to do it, and my reasons for that are:

1) He already shot reasonably well on corner threes last season, something is clearly off this season, but if he did it before he can do it again.
2) Huge improvement to his FT%.
3) Work ethic/love of basketball, he's the polar opposite of Ben Simmons in that regard.
4) He's a fluid athlete and appears to have a good soft touch around the rim, on FTs, on short jumpers. Those traits tend to lend themselves to improving as a jump shooter, although nothing is guaranteed.

 

And he was Fred's backup for the past 2 years! Remember that Reed, #3 pick, couldn't see the court because there was no room for him.