Per @TheCat Ben DuBose: Rockets wouldn’t have made KD trade if they knew FVV would be out for year

I like Fred and think he is a solid role player and good for the team....but something is tragically wrong with the way this team is built if our ceiling is a title contender only with Fred and Durant....and maybe a play in team without them.

The bottom line is why do we continue to have Alpi, Amen, Jabari, Reed, Tari on the roster if those 5 guys alone+ a few randos can't make us at least a surefire playoff team. Like - if we don't have the right collection of young guys, then start trading them to find the right fit. I just find it a bit dumbfounding that significantly late into their years KD, FVV, and Stevo are somehow making THAT big of a difference on the ceiling of this team.

 

They're either liars or fools - take your pick.

But one thing is certain - they were 100% betting on Amen playing PG at least some of the time. And that bet has failed. Now all we have is KD and Sengun dribbling around the 3pt line while Amen camps out near the stanchion.

 

That’s disingenuous to list his career like that. His reputation as a playoff performer is warranted.

In all 12 games over ECF and Finals (vs GSW) when they won

12ppg off the bench
47% threes
22 points in Game 6 closer

the next year he shoots 39% and scores 20ppg in 11 games

then his ridiculous final 5 games last year. 22ppg at 57%

all while being being traditional PG with solid defense.

 

How you characterized his playoffs last year is disingenuous. He was putrid in games 1-3 and very mediocre in game 7. He was very good in 4-6 from a scoring perspective. Game 7 he had 17 and 3 assists and 3 turnovers in 44 min. That’s ridiculous but not in a good way.

 

This whole statement is kind of weird. You would also have said the same thing about losing Sengun or Amen for the season. Very few teams can really compete for a title in a given season period and an even smaller number can compete for a title if they lose one of their ~4 best players. I thought signing Capela instead of a back-up plan at PG was weird but turns out we needed him.

It's definitely fair to say Stone should have spent the DFS money on a guard but then that's tricky because you are cutting into Reed's development.

I just don't get the need for this statement. If the Warriors push all in for Giannis and then Curry goes down for the year, then of course they'd look back and say they wouldn't make the trade knowing that.

 

He was our best player in the playoffs. That’s not really debatable.

implying games 4-6 was only about a “scoring perspective” is weird to say, like he didn’t bring everything else he’s highly regarded for.

basically, he proved (once again) his playoff reputation is warranted.

 

Where is all this disconnect business coming from? There is no disconnect, they don’t believe that we’re a championship team with Fred either. They just keep feeding us that bullsh*t to cover up their incompetence, lack of foresight, and cheapass fu*kness.

 

How is the Raptors franchise still operating without the irreplaceable Mid VanMeat?

When did VanMeat become prime LeBron James? (Or for this franchise, Prime James Harden)
•Best player on championship team
•Irreplaceable
•NTC
•”The System”

When did VanMeat lead the Rockets anywhere? Did I miss that?

Oh I forgot. The Silas era is now the Gold Standard™ for Rockets basketball and everything is judged from then.

Muh 52 wins! Better than Silas! Better than KPJ!

Well I guess they better get going this offseason! No one is off limits. Can’t waste the final 3ish years of Katie VanMeat. Rockets basketball might cease to exist afterwards.

 

As a big Morey critic the fertitas just need to get on their knees and cry/beg for him to come back

 

...but Steph Curry is still a top 20 guy in the league. Fred at this point is below a league average starting PG - more on the role player/rotational player value category. There is a HUGE difference between how Curry impacts the game vs a league average PG and how Fred impacts the game vs a league average PG. If Houston doesn't believe they have a scorer OR a PG of the future - they need to re-evalute the priority of the assets they collected from the draft because this doesn't look like it will be a legit contending team in the future if Amen and Alpi are your best players.

 

So being 1 and 2 in the first 3 didn’t mean anything? It’s very easy to blame Jalen, but Ime and his coach on the floor are just as culpable in our failure. You can’t have it both ways. He was great in 3 games, so he was great. LOL

 

Raptors went from 41 to 25 wins after Fred left, to look at them 3 years later isn't fair.

There are some advanced stats that have placed Fred really high over his last 2 seasons with us. I can buy him being underrated. Although, to dub him irreplaceable is a real failure of the front office and coaching staff to adjust, these guys are paid to be elite problem solvers and they sit on their hands.

 

Why not at least sign Dinwiddy (i.e., half sarcasm) who is sadly same age as our 38% non- three shooting savior. Fred doesn’t fix our shooting woes, when he can’t even hit 40% of his shots and is slow and getting old by NBA pg standards.….Cam Thomas would have fixed shooting/scoring issues but (per my friend w/Rockets back office) not one call was made to his agent. NOT ONE!!!!! I dare Ben, Clutch, or any other insider to prove me wrong as they won’t because it’s true.

 

That "next year" you're talking about he scored like 13.8 points on 13.5 shots.

I'm not sure how career playoff average is disingenuous. That's a 59 game sample.

First playoff appearance to young, barely played
Second he sucked
Third he sucked
Fourth was the title run, did great though disappeared a lot
Fifth mediocre
Sixth with us

That's 1 great, 1 good, 1 below average and 3 terrible runs.

The reason there's such volatility is that he's heavily dependent on teams leaving him open for 3's.

Is that fair?

I just don't see it. He seems to disappear often and then make up for it other times.

Not saying he sucks but just seems like an average starting PG with one clutch series on his resume. That's why we have to look at his last 5 or ignore his career playoff average.

 

He’s

You’re also missing the fact he’s in the twilight of his career coming off of a season ending surgery. He’s not going to rehab to even prior form.

FVV is done as an impactful player. He should be the coach though.

 

Regardless if you agree that our success as a franchise is based on Fred, which our org obviously does, why would you not take this yr to really develop Reed? He’s basically been playing 20 min a game for the first half of the season. Lately has been playing 25 min, but generally it’s been way too little relative to how the org supposedly values him as a prospect. I’ve heard some say that the org sees him as a 2. If that’s the case that’s a terrible pick at #3. If that ends up being Reed’s floor I’m good with that, but u don’t spend that draft capital on an undersized 2 unless you think he can be more of a combo guard or capable of being the lead on-ball guy. So regardless of the debate around Fred’s importance, how can one excuse the lack of court time and on-ball reps for Reed?

My hope is that we rest KD more and play Reed more the 2nd half of the season.

 

Even if I’m “underrating” VanMeat, you don’t really believe VanMeat is worth 15 wins

They traded Anunoby & Siakam halfway through that (25 win) year.

22-23: VanMeat-Anunoby-Barnes-Siakam-Poeltl
23-24: Quickley-Trent-Barrett-Barnes-Poeltl (Signed Schroder as replacement, traded him & traded OG & Siakam in Dec 2023/Jan 2024)
24-25: Quickley-Dick-Barrett-Barnes-Poeltl
25-26: Quickley-Barrett-Ingram-Barnes-Poeltl

For all/everyone: Let’s hear it. Where would you rank VanMeat. VanMeat is a Top __ PG

In no particular order
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Luka Doncic
Steph Curry
(—>Rockets see him here<—)
Tyrese Maxey
Cade Cunningham
Jalen Brunson
Jamal Murray
(Tyrese Haliburton)
James Harden
(Kyrie Irving)
De’Aaron Fox
Derrick White
Jrue Holiday
Darius Garland
Keyonte George
Josh Giddey
Collin Gillespie
LaMelo Ball
Immanuel Quickley
Ryan Rollins/KPJ
Egor Dёmin
Donte DiVincenzo
Davion Mitchell
Dyson Daniels
Jalen Suggs
Jeremiah Fears
Ja Morant
Trae Young
Russell Westbrook

 

Our Savior FVV will be back for the Playoffs and we will go 16-0

He's that good

 

I w

I went through this same exercise with the forum last year. None of his zeolites answered. He was plainly one of the five worst PG’s in the league last year. He’s really been mediocre his entire career. His best year he came off the bench. I had no problem with his first contract as we desperately needed a vet and we had to spend the money anyway. 2 years was enough and this brain dead front office and coach are going to bring his ass back and play him 40 mins until he breaks down again. We are a perpetual also ran until Ime is gone or Tito sells the team.

 

Not true he is out until next year. Imagine a slow player being even slower next year. Our dull half court offense will be even worse. Good news is we have the first pick in the upcoming draft….oh no, just found out that Stone gave away our Nets pick this year!!! Wish Mattress Mack would’ve bought this team as Fertitta/Stone have ruined it with ineptitude.