Per @TheCat Ben DuBose: Rockets wouldn’t have made KD trade if they knew FVV would be out for year

Please trade him this offseason. Nothing ruins my vibe more than the Rockets talking about Fred like a all star

 

Yes!! I think that prior to the dfs signing, Stone needed to sign a backup pg. Even in DFS wasn’t injured, he still wouldn’t provide us what we’re missing with Fred’s absence. And when we also put in the mix the terrible shape he is due to his ankles.. Stone, just admit it that you failed us this summer.

 

Love how they’re holding the people who want Reed to play hostage by saying they don’t want to bring in another guard cause it’ll limit his minutes. These morons don’t realize that they can bring in another ball handler and still give Reed his minutes. Just try motherfu*ker!!!

 

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to post saying I really love listening to your podcasts.Them together with LoR are great for my bicicle ride to work . Keep up the good work.

 

LOL. FVV will be extended again if he doesn’t get hurt the early part of the season. We are screwed until Ime is gone. We’ll probably lose Amen and maybe Sengun before Ime and FVV are gone.

 

I don't think it's that simple. People who think he's useless are just a loud minority. Most people believe he's a very good role player.

And what makes it even worse is the team is not treating him like just an all star. They're treating him like a franchise player. They're saying that there is no one they can acquire who can fill that spot the way Fred does.

IMO it's not that subjective. This is more than a difference of opinion. There is no way to justify the idea that Fred Van Vleet is irreplaceable to a team with multiple assets, dispensable contracts and draft picks. Especially if all the team is missing is an average starting PG.

They are just being stubborn and stupid. They're letting their personal feelings get in the way of their professional judgement.

 

Hehe, who cares. He’s stuck like chuck.

 

Exactly! Reed is not a pg. Maybe one day he’ll developed into a legitimate pg, but it will take time. For now we need a natural pg, and I’m sure Reed will be able to play beside him. Wasn’t it the plan for Fred and Reed? I mean, without any additional guard on our roster, Reed would probably play some minutes as a sg with Fred as pg.

 

Ben DuBose is a desperate wannabe who is just happy to be let in the building. He's the perfect tool for the team.

 

Yep, the Rockets bet a FRP and SRPs along with a NT-MLE. Of those, really only the FRP is a significant long-term asset. The Rockets bet half a turnip against 29 farms.

I was not expecting FVV to be as good as he was in the playoffs. I was just expecting him to be able to guard guards, switch up the defensive spectrum for short periods, handle setting up offense, getting the ball to playmakers, and shooting catch-and-shoot threes. I think Rockets were capable of handling him being out for long periods as long as they had him for the playoffs (or Reed busted out).

I think Rockets FO wanted to develop Reed while making a stab at a cheap win-now move. Getting a 4th string PG to ride the bench wasn't going to matter. Getting an FVV replacement would have cost the majority of the SRPs the Rockets have left, and probably wasn't close to good enough unless the Rockets parted with more FRPs chasing a sunk cost.

On Cat's comments that Rockets would not have done the trade, I'm surprised. I would guess the Rockets could have asked Durant if he wanted to go to the Spurs at the deadline and recoup the FRP, likely plus an extra FRP (neither probably as good as the 10th pick by themselves, but more value together). I don't think the Spurs expected to be this good this soon, and he fits with their team very well.

 

Fred Van Vleet averages 11 points on 9 shots plus 3.6 assists in the playoffs. I honestly don't know what he's done especially well in the playoffs other than drilling catch and shoot when he's hot.

For us he put up 18 points on 13 shots with 4.4 assists (offense). On defense he struggled to guard the second best perimeter threat but he was decent. Sengun averaged more assists than him.

Amen guarded Steph Curry and did an A+ job (this alone is out of reach for Fred). He also put up something like 16 points on 12 shots, 7 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.6 stocks. If we do last 5 games, he was even better.

Amen Thompson was the best player in the playoffs and he wasn't that good. However, if your 22 year old and your 31 year old are neck and neck, you should probably build towards the 22 year old. This much everyone knew the day the playoffs ended.

 

Hindsight will always be 20/20. I still think the Rockets would have taken the opportunity to trade for KD though. If FVV really is ahead of schedule then I don't see why they would regret it.

They've probably made way more from ticket sales than previous seasons by having KD here. More media exposure as well. And let's not forget the Rockets have a better record than Phoenix. JG has been hurt all season and Brooks is going to do something dumb in the playoffs that will hurt his team (if they make it). It never fails.

Stone had since before the season to figure out how to turn lemons into lemonade. He sat on his ass and did nothing before the deadline.

If FVV is in fact not coming back before the playoffs then the Rockets need to fire Stone and hire a better GM. They can still keep him as the attorney. I still don't understand why this dude had lunch with Banchero out in the open right before the 2022 draft.

 

This report makes zero sense. If true, it means the Rockets knew before the season that they couldn't contend without Fred, who is an average starting PG at best. If that's what they really thought, then they should've brought in a competent backup PG instead of Okogie and DFS. Everyone knows that the NBA season is way too long and depth is they key.

No - it's a lie. The truth is that they actually believed in Amen as a PG, and they weren't going to bring in anyone to compete with him at that position. But he actually clogs the offense instead of running it. They bet big on this guy who doesn't have a position in the modern NBA and it's cost them.

 

It screams damage control in a very unintelligent way. At least Morey would be smart about it.

too many contradictions for us to buy it. These guys just have no clue what they’re doing. We’re becoming another Sactown

 

As @OremLK laid out earlier in this thread, they absolutely do not believe that. That's the disconnect here. They viewed FVV, and this was before the KD trade (thus, no spin), as the most valuable player on last season's No. 2 seed. They think incredibly highly of him, always have. You can disagree with that, to each their own, but I can promise you that is their perspective. 100 percent. In their eyes, a "competent backup PG" is not going to come anywhere close to filling his shoes.

 

Per @Astrodome: The Rockets wouldn't have extended FVV if they knew he would be out for the year

 

Rockets are positioning to make a run next year, not this year
With a fully healthy DFS, hopefully Steven Adams and FVV
A re-signed Tari and continued play of KD
Not to mention growth of Reed
development of Amen, Bari, and Sengun

The FO is banking on the continuity of the group to make a push next year
Not guaranteed by any means
Hopefully they can add another impactful piece in the offseason

 

Does Fred make this team better? Probably.

Does inserting Fred make this a championship caliber team? Absolutely not.

The disconnect between the fans and the team is that they supposedly feel like Championship hopes went out the door with Fred but:

-They still play 37 yr old KD 37 mins/gm in a season they dont think they can win it all.

-Wont use opportunities to speed up the development of Reed, when the season is apparently toast anyways

-Act like there arent things that can be done to make this current group better



Is Fred being out why Ime gets outcoached and cant adjust to Wemby roaming the paint while ignoring Amen? Is Fred why they get blown out by a Celtics team on a back to back at home without their two best players?

Is Fred being out why they play 90s ball, double big and lose the 3pt math game all the time?

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The disconnect is not addressing obvious issues and falling back on "oh well Fred is out". The disconnect is believing Fred fixes all the issues this team has and gets them over the hump. Fred is not that guy, and frankly even if he was I find it kinda p***y and b**** made that youd just throw your hands up and basically throw the towel in, especially when theres no real draft benefit to doing so.

But dont worry, we will revisit this in a year or two when Fred is back and Ime still cant coach an offense to save his life....just like the last two years when Fred was here.