I was confused on the final scene, is Toronaga bad? He is pretty much manipulating everything and everyone and he sent Mariko to die for his cause all while just keeping The Anjin there because he makes him laugh... Did I miss something?
Hes a tyrant that wants to create an empire with no more warring. Theres irony in that, but he will stop at nothing and will dispose and use anyone at his will to get what he wants.
Yeah, I thought he was a good humble leader up until the end.... It wasn't shocking he burned down the ship but the way he truthfully portrayed himself in an arrogant way and proud of his manipulation sort of spoiled how fantastic the show was up to that point. You spend the entire 10 episodes rooting for this guy and then he comes out as conniving as all the other villains. I get his intentions are for peace thou, can't wait for season 2....
I do not think the world is bad or good .... He is more of a pragmatist .....than thought before and surely not as noble...... Probably how a Shogun is supposed to be..... He used Mariko's determination to die all along.
The show runners do not plan a Season 2. The miniseries covered 90+% of the original material, so there is not much story left to tell.
At best, Toronaga is lesser of two evils, with the other being Ishido. Toranaga's machinations were more emphasized in the book, but were only fully revealed at the book's conclusion.
he is basically an a**hole. selfish, manipulative and deceptive. let his friends die for him and he tricked others into doing things that would get them killed. lied to blackthorne about his ship and keeps him there essentially as a hostage for the rest of his life. he owes everything to a stroke of luck when lady ochiba decided to stand down. and what was her motive? to save the realm? doesnt toronaga have to kill the heir? he stole the throne from him. or did he make a deal with lady ochiba to spare them both? and also, why did blackthorne pull his burned ship out of the harbor? was it just to clear it out of the way? and to further reinforce what an a**hole toronaga is, he kills and beheads villagers because he is trying to root out the spy who burned the ship when he was the one who did it all along.
This showed how deceptive/tyranic he really was. He told blackthorne to rebuild his ship and to build him a navy, using blackthornes own humility and morality against him with the excessive ruse of killing the villagers in "search" of the criminal. He connived a whole masterplan of manipulating Blackthorne for the sole purpose of building a fleet of ships and making him believe it was to honor Marikos sacrifice and for a greater cause to continue his upcoming siege.
I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I haven't read any negative reaction to the series, its also one of the top rated series of the year. I enjoyed the reveal in final episode, with Toronaga's plan being revealed and making his ultimate victory a forgone conclusion once Markio sacrificed herself leading Lady Ochiba to turn on Ishido.....
It was really enjoyable. I have similar sentiments with others that that finale was a bit of a letdown as I would've enjoyed a cinematic battle. That's not to say it was a bad ending or anything. Very scheme-y in the essence of the show and its politics. It should definitely win some awards. The production was top notch.
Saw some of those events earlier.... Arrival of the Shinobi, the Cannon that killed an envoy of Ishido, the Great Earthquake, Buntaro Scenes, Seppukus, Foolish death of Nagakado etc...
I looked into it more, the real life person the John Blackthorne character was based on was only 5'6 himself so I think it's fine to ignore since it wouldn't be the massive height difference you might find with Portuguese, Dutch, and British people of average height in the era.
I just finished watching the last two episodes and as a fan of the book and the 80’s series very much enjoyed it. A few minor critiques are that I didn’t like the overall dark look of the series. Japan can be wet and cold at times but it’s not as fog bound and damp as this series depicted it. I get that this was shot in Vancouver but it does get sunny at times even in Vancouver. The 1980 series was shot in Japan and used some actual Japanese castles in them. As such the sets had more of a feeling of grandness. Some of the sets including Osaka castle didn’t seem very grand even looked cheap. The stone walls to me seemed like set fake stones and while the CGI backgrounds didn’t quite seem to mesh at times Anna Sawai did a great job as Mariko but I didn’t think Cosmo Jarvis was as good as Blackthorne and I didn’t get as much of a sense of his inner struggle or complexity. Hiroyuki Sanada is a really great actor and loved him in other roles. His Toranaga almost seemed too restrained. I think from that the relationship between Blackthorne and Toranaga isn’t as well developed as in the 1980’s series. In that one you do see Blackthorne and Toranage have lighter moments including laughing together. In some ways both series reflect their times and while both are fairly faithful to the book they have different feels. The 80’s series both looked and felt brighter. It was as more of an adventure and romance story. This series was darker in look and feel. It was more about the political machinations and inner struggle of Mariko in particular. Regarding the morality of Toranaga and whether he is a “good guy”. You have to understand that he is very closely based on an actual person and the events in Shogun follow actual events. Ieyesu Tokugawa who Toranaga was based off of did win the battle of Sekighara and become Shogun. That battle ended two centuries of almost constant warfare in Japan and led to an era peace and prosperity. Tokugawa wasn’t a man of mercy and humility. Possibly as many as 42,000 died in the battle of Sekighara with many of the losers later executed or forced to commit sepuku. Tokugawa / Toranaga has to be looked at like a Ceasar or Napoleon a brilliant military leader and reformer with a sense of destiny. But also one very willing to manipulate and kill to fulfill what they see as their destiny. Regarding Toranaga’s overall strategy he is following much of Sun Tzu’s ideas. Deception is very important and in the book about is made about how Toranaga is a master of Japanese Noh acting where he can hide his true feelings very well. Also not attacking first but getting your enemies to attack rashly. Historically a person like Toranaga would’ve been familiar with Sun Tzu as Japan was heavily influenced by Classical Chinese culture.
I guess we’re not spoilering anymore but to follow up on what some of the other posters have said. Toranaga is an a-hole when judged by our social mores. He isn’t by medieval Japan. Under that system the peasants could be killed by Samurai for any reason. In one of the earlier episodes Omi beheads one for not bowing to him and the old gardener is out to death for taking down blackthorne’s pheasant. In the book the village is threatened with death but not by Toranage but Yabu and takes place much earlier in the story. The villagers are ordered to help Blackthorne learned Japanese and if he isn’t fluent by the end of six months they will all be killed. Blackthorne finding this out says he can’t live with the shame of having all the villagers die becaue of him. He does attempt sepuku and Omi is the one who stops him. Yabushiga relents from putting all the villagers to death. Blackthorne’s ship is burned by Toronaga but not just as a favor to Mariko or to save Blackthorne. It’s part of a secret deal with the Christian regents and the Portuguese to keep him from attacking the Black Ship. Blackthorne is trying to pull what remains of his ship from harbor to salvage the keel which he can build a new ship on. Another change in this series is when Blackthorne is leaving Osaka castle with the priest there is an attempt by the Portuguese to capture him. The samurai that Toronaga gave Blakcthorne along with the Portuguese pilot Rodrigo save him.
For those who wanted to see the big final battle there is a Japanese movie about the Battle of Sekigahara I’ve not seen it and my Japanese isn’t good enough to understand much of it. One thing I did hear about it is that it is much more sympathetic to the Ishido character while Tokugawa / Toranaga character is the antagonist.
