Since the accusation is this is censorship, why would they censor tiktok? If they have security concerns, then it's not effectively censorship. It's security. Members of this forum who post in the D&D are universally concerned about China as an enemy waaay more than I am but maybe I'm naive, so I really don't get why they have a problem with this
Kind of grunching, so I'll catch up later, but I have this concern. Just checking, but we're all on the same page that this is forced divestiture, not a ban, right? Tik Tok ain't going out of business. My real concern is that China already has a history of manipulating and skirting trade agreements, intellectual IP (which they just straight up steal from Americans), and US police and policies to punish Chinese nationals in the US. Look, from a impact standpoint, the Chinese government is pretty badass. And they have this centuries old chip on their shoulder (their government) from being the historic whipping boy of the West (see Opium Wars). They are freaking dangerous and will destroy anything in their way. Even though Tik Tok is currently not in Chinese control, the fact that their law allows for that possibility makes Tik Tok in its current ownership form at odds with American national security interests. Imagine any conflict in the future with China, whether it be trade, Taiwan, Vietnam, tech, whatever. They can easily influence the masses of Americans against America with their propoganda. They just did that with their ads against this proposed law. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/07/tiktok-vs-washington-its-on-00145727 Now if our population was more educated and the guardrails of democracy were stronger, then I'd be less concerned. We're a bunch of idiots though. We have enough problems with domestic idiotic propoganda. Let's keep foreign control out of reach, at least until we're less dumb.
You’re not making any sense. I literally said many posts above and there’s a video about it. not going to repeat it
Is our government not concerned about the Chinese government having access to our citizen's private information? Why does the government want to censor tiktok?
@LosPollosHermanos I watched a little of your Greenwald video? What extra power is the government gaining by forcing the sell of tiktok? Can tiktok still exist if they find a buyer? Ii posted this because I didn't fully read the last post of yours I responded to buy you didn't answer why in the fuq would they want to censor tiktok?
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/11/1237833658/house-tiktok-vote-trump last monday, Trump said that he is opposed to banning the hugely popular app because doing so would help its rival, Facebook, which he continues to lambast over his 2020 election loss. "Frankly, there are a lot of people on TikTok that love it. There are a lot of young kids on TikTok who will go crazy without it," Trump said in a call-in interview with CNBC's "Squawk Box." "There's a lot of good and there's a lot of bad with TikTok. But the thing I don't like is that without TikTok you're going to make Facebook bigger, and I consider Facebook to be an enemy of the people, along with a lot of the media."
The arguments (if this get signed into law as-is, which isn't going to happen) in court will essentially boil down to free speech (censorship) vs national security interest. I'm against this proposed bill for these reasons.
How much law is based on "Americans are too stupid to do it themselves" We don't believe Americans have any resistance to foreign influence through TikTok Rocket River
Here is my outlook on this issue. This will drag on beyond the November election. If Trump is elected, things might change. If the upcoming administration does not change it, there will be legal battles for years, if eventually the government get its way, TikTok will just be banned in the US, it will not be sold to a western country.
More likely, Tik Tok would just be owned by an American company or non Chinese company (potentially controlled via China law).
I Okay, I see that a ban in Montana has already been deemed unlawful and the plaintiffs are users of tiktok. Other states are backing Montana in an appeal https://www.reuters.com/legal/tikto...peech-protections-us-constitution-2024-03-14/
Till now, I haven't read that Reuters article. Here's a quote from it that align with my point. I believe the abuse of users' data has already occurred, is ongoing, and will worsen. It's a significant issue that needs to be addressed across all social media platforms, not just the one from China. "Critics spot a weakness in the government's potential case on this point: Washington thus far has seemed unconcerned about abuse of users' data by other social media platforms. Plenty of companies such as Meta Platform's (META.O), opens new tabFacebook collect, store and share users' data, but the government has never treated that activity as a national security threat or enacted data protections. The Electronic Frontier Foundation's David Greene said that if the U.S. were really concerned about China and data privacy, it would push legislation that applies to all social media companies, not just TikTok."
TikTok blah blah blah. Why aren't we dealing with the more pressing issue of Pornhub no longer being available in Texas without a VPN?
Here's my take: Instead of banning the app, and pissing off young people, why not just start releasing declassified intelligence that links China to Tik Tok, and expose their methods in trying to influence, and steal from the US?? I don't think Biden, and his campaign heads would be okay with the ban unless they knew something behind the scenes that troubled them from a national security perspective. So just level with the US on what exactly is going on, and even if you expose some sources and methods, it could be better than dealing with the US public falling more and more into distrust, and conspiracy.
Tiktok is a owned by a Chinese company. While I agree the government should be concerned about all social media sites abusing access of user data, it's a national security issue because of tiktok being based in China
Those are issues too. So it's not about a fairness thing to me (and maybe fairness has legal merit), but it's that before we make laws that address Meta and Twitter and whatnot, we need to make laws that address TikTok not only because its parent company is a Chinese company, but that recent China law about government access to everything. I agree with those who say China hasn't used it yet, but the fact that it can at any moment is a national security concern. American social media companies do not have penetration into the Chinese market, right? I remember being there and needing to use VPN or the Chinese version of everything. That's still the case, right? This cannot be a one-way info power grab. We either have to have Chinese market access with American laws saying we can take control of the data at any time if needed, or we pass this Tik Tok divestment law (or some version of it).
In case you haven't seen it, I refer back to my previous post on the issues, just for some background information (not complete, of course). It's not about fairness for me either. You're right, American social media giants don't have a presence in China, mainly because they won't play by China's rules - allowing full government surveillance and control. At least for now, they've chosen to sit it out. The one-way flow of information and power grab stems from the vastly different values and laws between our countries. We don't permit government surveillance and manipulation. We need to address this head-on - if you want to operate here, surveillance and control are off the table. Allowing the US government to spy on Chinese citizens, control content, and potentially sway public opinion would go against our democratic principles. We'd lose the moral high ground - a value just as crucial as shielding our people from foreign propaganda (or worse). What's the real national security risk? State-sponsored propaganda campaigns, as reported? Sure, that's concerning, but why draw the line at our borders? In today's globalized world, large platforms can be influenced by anyone - domestic or foreign actors with financial ties to powers like China. We're blind to who might be pulling the strings. That's why I advocate a broader approach focused on user privacy and transparency to detect abuse, whether foreign or domestic. There are more direct security risks too. What if TikTok has a backdoor built by the Chinese government - a dormant virus waiting for activation? That's a clear threat, more tangible than propaganda concerns. I'm all for taking action, but this divestment law doesn't solve the problems and forcing companies to sell due to these fears sets a dangerous precedent. Instead, we should mandate they meet our security and privacy standards to operate here. I'm also wary of government overreach - forced sales could benefit parties seeking discounted acquisitions or governments wanting to silence dissenting voices on a platform. If divestment is truly necessary, I'd prefer forcing an IPO, allowing companies to retain value while opening them to US investment and regulation. I'm for new robust laws on privacy, transparency into the software/hardware algorithms and supply chain, etc., with rigorous oversight of foreign tech... with those, we can mitigate these risks, without compromising our values and risking government overreach.
QUESTION: How does this information get used by China? Comment: So Much of these kind of laws are of the framework of *I* know how to not be manipulated by China no matter what information they have, . .. . BUT THESE OTHER AMERICAN MORONS . . . would start WWIII based on a Rumor put on TikTok!!!! The Underlying problem with this and alot of American lawmaking is . .. we don't trust our fellow Americans to be smart. TRUE - we have alot of evident that bears that out . . . but it seems that the solution is EDUCATING OUR FELLOW AMERICANS *BUT* If you make them immune to Chinese manipulation . . . .then chances are *WE* won't be able to manipulate them either and .. . . American Government and Business *NEED* that , , ,, , so they create an artificial barrier to make it so they have an exclusive market on the ability to manipulate The American Public. American Capitalism in the 21st Century is about making Artificial Barriers to Supply and Demand While simultaneously extorting the virtues of Supply and Demand Rocket River
