It’s not a “made up number” pulled out of the air. The 30,000 number is reported by the Gazan Health Ministry. Historically the Gazan Healthy Ministry has been within 1-3% of the amount of dead estimates by Israel and the UN. Could the number be wrong? Yes, but based on history and circumstance it is the best number we have. It’s hard to get an accurate number while Israel is still killing women and children and civilians. FWIW Israel is claiming they have killed over 10,000 Hamas fighters…. That would leave 20,000 dead civilians and based on other similar conflicts, it is certainly possible. This isn’t a Trump situation where he just pulled numbers out of his dick hole or 4-Chan…. There is at least a basis and historical context to believe 30,000 is the best estimate. If you want an exact number for the people, we will get one for you after Gaza is completely a parking lot - assuming the IDF doesn’t just use bulldozers to dump them in a tar pit and burn them all for fuel.
Looks like the whole modern world is having a credibility crisis in 2024. The level of incompetence and greed and indifference to suffering by those controlling the government and culture is STAGGERING. The only thing more disturbing is the complete ambivalence (at best) or indifference (at worst) that people have at the macro level to this incompetence. As long as the government tells you we are better than some other group and the internet works and there is food in the store - the whole world doesn’t give a ****. If it’s really this easy, why even bother with democracy or rules for government officials to follow.
Again for those continuing to deny that the death toll in Gaza is in the tens of thousands even the IDF isn’t denying that. It’s impossible to avoid killing a lot of people dropping a 500lb bomb into one of the most densely populated places on earth. It would be like dropping a bomb in the middle of Hong Kong.
Congrats to the primarily younger folks of the Jewish Voice for Peace and the Democratc Sociaists of America (DSA) and other groups who have protested and hounded Joe Biden on his backing the genocide in Gaza. No way Biden would be proposing the temporary military dock to deliver food to keep additional 110's if not 100's of thousands of Gazans from starving. They may have saved his election. They may have saved Israel from a near perpetual status internationally more similar to N. Korea than the nice modern outpost of western civilization who deserve total support due to the Holocaust.
It is not in their interest to simply make up inflated numbers that are wildly inaccurate, they have made public their methodology of estimating the dead, and their estimates in past conflicts were close to Israel’s. Also, from last December: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...za-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/ Reports citing anonymous Israeli officials in both AP and AFP say that the IDF believes the overall Gaza death toll claimed by Hamas is fairly accurate, and that more civilians have been killed than Hamas operatives. The comments appeared to emerge from an off-record briefing for foreign journalists conducted by military officials. An unnamed IDF official cited by AP says that at least 15,000 Palestinians in Gaza have died since the outbreak of the war on October 7. The army says it estimates more than 5,000 of the Gaza deaths to be Hamas terrorists. AFP quotes an unnamed Israeli official: “I’m not saying it’s not bad that we have a ratio of two to one,” noting that the use of human shields was part of Hamas’s “core strategy.” In short, you’re wrong when you say that the GHM’s numbers are totally made up. As crude as they may be, given the chaotic situation on the ground, they are the best estimate we have for the scale of death we have on the Palestinian side. When the dust settles, and we learn of indirect deaths as well due to disease and malnutrition, we may very well find that they are wildly underestimating the true death count. War is a terrible thing, and Hamas and Israeli planners and all those backing the continuation of armed conflict have decided this mass suffering is acceptable to them.
you're again conflating "Terrorists with Palestinians and Gazans". If we were to accept the 15k number above, a more honest way of reporting would be to say 5k Hamas terrorists have been killed, and it is estimated there have been 10k civilian casualties in Gaza. that's different than saying there have been 15k Palestinians killed. be honest, not a propagandist.
In the War in Iraq, the civilian casualty ratio was about 77%, so Israel is killing 2:1 civilians to military instead of the US 3:1. Not too bad. I would say given the fact they are fighting an enemy that doesn't wear uniforms and fights from within the civilian population, that is about as good as can be expected. One would think a genocide, indiscriminate bombing, a massacre, etc. would be a lot worse at targeting military targets.
I note that you have now changed your argument from the numbers being made up to the numbers conflating Hamas and civilian deaths. This is interesting, given it is your side who constantly wants to deny that people on the Gazan side can even be regarded as civilians (how many times have I seen that word placed in quotes?). It is absolutely true civilian and non-civilian deaths are being conflated in the 30,000 figure. If we are being honest, it is more accurate to report total dead that are tallied than to try to make a distinction (based on a judgment call) between Hamas and civilians with incomplete information on who these people are and the circumstances under which they were killed. Experience from past conflicts show that the sides can differ significantly not on the total deaths but rather the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths. One may yry to infer civilian deaths from the 30,000 estimate based on various factors, such as number of killed women and children. But this is not something you’ll have any interest in, because your position is probably that the less people discuss the scale of civilian deaths on the Gazan side the better. It is an inconvenient topic for war propagandists.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/no-womens-day-gaza-say-mothers-hungry-children-2024-03-08/#:~:text=Health officials in Gaza say,be dead under the rubble. Health officials in Gaza say nearly 9,000 of the 30,878 people confirmed killed in Israel's offensive were women, and another 13,000 are children of both sexes. Many thousands more are believed to be dead under the rubble. 22,000 dead women and children, per the health ministry. Probably an undercount.
The final numbers in Iraq? The current numbers that we have in Gaza do not include those that are dead under the rubble, those that have not been able to get treatment and died, those that died from disease and hunger related to invasion of Gaza. So the number of civilians are certain to increase. The IDF has leveled and dropped air fire on Gaza more than the Americans did in Iraq. Because Hamas is a terrorist organization - there will always be disagreements between the Palestinian authority and the IDF over how many of the men killed were Hamas and were not. Still, in an area roughly twice the size of Washington DC, there are so far over 30,000 dead and 1.7-1.9 million homeless people in the area right now, and most of them are starving. By the time this is over the number of dead civilians is going to be massive in a small geographical area.
Descendants of Nazis calling Jews "fake Jews" ?! It is a thing in Germany; check it out. They think this atones for the Holocaust. In Germany I might very well be imprisoned for this post. It would take psychologists, sociologists and others and others to tease it out but this weird thinking may explain why Germany turned NAZI back in the 1930's.
