February 29th slaughterhouse massacre, IDF shoots starving civillians by the hundreds

Yea. We shouldn't fund genocide. This needs to end.

 

The vicarious bloodthirstyness of people on this issue is disturbing.

 

So much pains and evil.

Conflicting reports. IDF being trigger-happy leading to a stampede seems most logical. Israeli soldiers should be nowhere near civilian aids.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/dozen...ede-for-aid-idf-opens-fire-blamed-for-deaths/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...d-killings-unfolded-and-israels-story-changed

 

At what point does the mainstream Western world start to see Israel as the bad guys?

 

I am all for helping Israel, but this is crossing a line that I don't feel comfortable with. Hammas is evil, I get that, but there are people in Gaza who need help..........let's take a time out and try and negotiate a feasible ending to this. Hammas needs to be eliminated for sure, but the killing of innocent people needs to stop...............religion and politics do not mix which is why the founders didn't want to cross pissing streams with the Church and States ...................I am talking to you "Christian Nationalism"

 

I think we're almost there.........the people getting killed yesterday trying to reach the food trucks may have tipped the scales, but it's so hard to know what's true and what's fake.

 

I don’t know what recent polling is but in general it seems like opinions in the West are more critical of israel now. We see that with the Biden Admin putting more pressure on Israel as Biden has said he still supports Israel.

I posted a piece yesterday about why the Irish support Palestine and that seems to be getting stronger. Also in January while in Amsterdam and Iceland I saw a lot of Palestinian flags and no Israeli flags.

That is anecdotal but I’ve heard from others including posters here who strongly support Israel that isn’t unusual for Western Europe.

 

Yeah. It’s sick, sad and disappointing. I have friends who are Jewish and always pull for the Jews since they’ve been so persecuted and downtrodden throughout history. I get the overwhelming military force part, too- their country is surrounded by people who hate them. But I’m starting to see that Israel is bringing the 'bad guys' tag on themselves when innocent people are getting murdered. With that level of military tech and training they should be able to minimize civilian casualties.

 

Isreal is too well connected.
Not saying they control the media but they have had strong control of the narrative.

Rocket River

 

I dated someone from Israel that used to be in the IDF. She and her family shared interesting perspective and have been able to provide insight for a lot that many folks don't get to see from our place here. We've stayed in sporadic contact and still talk from to time. Sadly she had family taken during October 7th attack.

Even with that, she and her family have a more balanced approach than several people that post on these boards.

 

I would be interested in hearing that perspective if you are able to share.

 

I'd love to hear her thoughts.There used to be a poster on this BBS that was living in Tel Aviv. I wish they were still around as they always had some great insight. I do know a few people that live in Israel - one just moved back to Virginia right after Oct. 7. Another is a natural born Israeli who used to work for the Jerusalem Post. He was actually pretty high up so he's very aware of the politics of the country. He absolutely HATES Bibi Netanyahu and blames him for much of this conflict and for failing to bring the hostages home by focusing on revenge instead of the source of the conflict. It's interesting to me to hear his opinions. Through my visit to Israel, and conversations with him and others in the country, I've learned that this conflict is way more complicated than most people on the far right and far left will admit. Even many Israelis will admit that their country has been in the wrong when it comes to the poor treatment of Palestinians. Until just a few years ago, most Israelis believed in a 2 state solution, but under Bibis influence (and further stoking the conflict), for the first time, a very slight majority no longer believes a peaceful solution is realistic. The problem with Israels politics is the minority far right ultra- orthodox Jewish groups vote at a 90% participation rate They almost exclusively vote for whomever their Rabbi's push as a political candidate. And in a multi-party election system, this is how Israel keeps ending up with far right leaders.

 

It’s so disheartening and disgusting to see so much innocent bloodshed.

 

It's kind of long and hard to hit all the points on the bbs with any real depth or nuance that it probably deserves.

But I'll just give some highlights.

• Bibi is corrupt as hell and has known to be corrupt as hell for a long time.
• There are definite different aspects as toward how to deal with the Palestinian situation. (Most believe that Palestinians have been mistreated. But there are those that think they deserve it. Some feel it is a sad necessity to preserve Israel. Some feel that there should be more work done towards an equitable solution.)
• Part of the problem in translating what happens with the rest of the world and particularly the United States is that people elsewhere just don't understand the situation on the ground and reality and history of the culture in Israel. So talking about Israelis who hate Palestinians and Palestinians that hate Israelis gets over-generalized, dramatized and put into a black and white categories when it is never that simplistic.
• It is understood that Israel can't allow the occupied Palestinians as citizens. To various extents - sometimes more, sometimes less - The plan is to try and get other nations to take in the Palestinians, and/or drive them out. The main difference is just to what extremes.
• Settlers are almost all (not all but mostly a problem). Some more than others. Many are religious fanatics who are cruel and attack Palestinians. Many Israelis don't like when Palestinians attack settlements but they understand why it would happen.
• Israel supports them because and advertises and seeks more Jewish folks from around the world to come and live there. They are in a hard place because coming down too hard on the settlers will discourage future settlement.
• These plans are established long term plans that exist from the past and are definitely part of the plans going forward. It doesn't really matter what coalitions and parties will win the elections. It is usually only a matter of degree.
• They respect Egypt as a partner in peace (for the most part). Most Israelis want more nations in the region to also become partners in peace.
• Most places in Israel are removed from where the terrorist attacks happen.
• There is still a legitimate fear of the Antisemitism that exists around the world, especially in Europe and especially in Eastern Europe.
• Because of Israel's belief that other places in the world particularly the United States do not have the understanding to comprehend the intricacies of the situations, they try and tailor the messages they send out to fit in with what they believe the understanding of the US. would be.
• There are so many general cultural differences that exist between the U.S. and Israel that it is tough to explain.
• The Palestinian fighters are pretty gullible and the IDF believes they are easy to trick.

These are just some of the highlights and nothing too in-depth.

 

....and? Spill the tea, my good sis! Edit- you just did, right there /\

 

I will be direct - what I have seen over the last 23 years makes it very hard for me to believe that people by nature are good. The level of cruelty and the level of whitewashing and claiming clean hands is alarming.

Someone posted actual video of when it was happening and said it looked like Armageddon. I know that sounds sensational, but it really did - it was horrible. There was mass confusion, women and young children, old men and women - and some fathers. What really stood out to me was the women, they seemed to be the most composed.

 

When the Boomers are dead.

 

The Israeli government and some Israeli's want all of the Palestinians to disappear. That can be putting them on boats to the West or that can be genocide and starvation. They don't care how it happens. They view Gaza and the West Bank as the Jewish homeland. So whatever it takes.

There are Middle Eastern religious leaders and Middle Eastern Muslims that view the Middle East as only for Arab Muslims - and only those Muslims that are of their particular sect. That means that the Israeli's and any Westerners should be murdered and expelled.

Neither side is above lying or being deceptive. The Israeli's like to hide behind being "civilized" while the Arabs proudly will proclaim it as their religious right.

It is all disgusting and the fact that we have supported any of this - and at different times - BOTH sides is disgusting.