[Official] Spring Training 2024

Espada has talked about wanting to do it.

The problem is that Verlander is very much against it.

 

Maybe his shoulder is voting for Espada.

 

I know Verlander is a creature of habit not to mention he needs to pitch 140 innings for his option to vest.

A straight 6 man rotation gives each starter 27 starts. 6 innings per = 162 innings. Not much wiggle room. If he gets dinged and misses 4 starts its very unlikely he gets the innings which would be bad for the Astros also.

I think a hybrid 6 man where Framber and JV start in place of whomever else may be scheduled if they are on 5 days rest makes more sense. The skipped starter can then piggy back the next day to keep everyone fresh but stretched out.

That would likely get JV 4-5 more starts and 24-30 more innings and leeway to still hit 140 innings in case of injury, but still keep him fresh for post season

 

Let it stew for a bit

 

They did a six man rotation in '22 for a bit and JV said after the season was over, that despite the adjustment with his routine, that it definitely helped him from wearing down and that he felt stronger in the playoffs.

 

I'm wondering if the Astros can adjust the terms of the option to reflect reduced usage in a 6 pitcher rotation down to 117 IP and still be covered by the trade terms with the Mets? Of course we might get an extra inning per start, so 27 x 7 IP = 189 IP or in your example 23 x 7 IP = 161 IP. if he misses 4 games or a month.

It might make an interesting lawsuit if the Astros and JV change the trigger point of the player option when the Mets have agreed to pay half if triggered? Is the agreement with the Mets about triggering the option or about meeting the specific terms of the option? Just another rabbit hole to go down. I'd really love to read the language of the trade agreement.

 

No chance.

The issue is the money the Mets are putting up. If he doesn't hit 140 they don't have to pay and there is 0 reasons they renegotiate that.

The Astros can accept the option even at 0 innings pitched if JV agrees to it but at full price.

 

If the language of the trade indicates the original terms of the option have to be met, I would agree. But if it simply says if the option is exercised, they will pay. Then maybe not. That's why I'd love to see the language. And any lack of clarity on that point would be the primary reason for a lawsuit.

I'd personally like to see JV make this a moot point, and then exercise the option if he's still at least a Middle Of the Rotation Pitcher.

 

I wonder if they could do a 6 man rotation but have Verlander go every 5th pitcher to give everyone else an extra day of rest every 5 times through the rotation.

 

I wonder if JV is now more amenable to the 6 man rotation as long as it is a routine one now that he's 40? A couple of comments would suggest it might be the case including talking about his age and his arm being behind this spring and feeling fresher at the end of the season in 22.

Friday SP - JV
Saturday SP - FV
Sunday SP - CJ
Monday SP - JF/SA
Tuesday SP - JU
Wednesday SP - HB
Thursday SP - BB/RB

Advance everyone one day the first week of the season and catch upon day 8.

I know. Six days rest is just too far out there.

 

I understand everything you are saying here

But if I wanted a 6 man rotation it would be to reduce the innings that JV, Framber and Javier throw in the regular season so they are strong for the post season

If you are going to exclude Framber and JV from it then just go with a 5 man rotation and hope they are fine in late September

 

Yeah, resting Jose Urquidy and JP France is not really a concern. If JV is going to throw a fit about a 6 man rotation then they probably just need to shelve the idea. Maybe instead of a 6 man rotation they just keep a 6th guy stretched out and have a 5 man rotation where each guy gets skipped every 5th turn. That would limit innings without disrupting the pitchers routines. But if Verlander’s beef is related to his contract then that’s not a solution either.

 

I'm sure it's contract related because when we did it in 22 for a bit he had nothing negative to say about it

More than likely he already knows he will start the season late (regardless of the sound bites the Astros are putting out) and even if he just misses a couple of weeks, mix that with a six man rotation and he becomes unlikely to get to his innings

Reality is right now to fill a 5 man rotation we are looking at Urquidy 4 and one of Blanco/Bielak/Arrighetti, so to start the year it's likely a moot point anyway

This is where the phrase you can never have enough pitching comes in to play, and also why I was balking at all the offseason talk in here that involved trading away Urquidy for prospects to save a few bucks

 

A 5 man rotation gives the pitchers 4 days of rest with a 5th day fairly regularly to account for off days.

Having a 6 man rotation but skipping the bottom 4 guys when there is a day off would give even Framber and JV 5 days off regularly.

It's still a benefit and an acceptable compromise.

 

Will just have to agree to disagree

In that scenario there would times some of your non-Framber and JV starters go over a week without starting. Way too much of a disruption to 67% of your rotation and you aren't getting the extra rest to 67% of the guys you need to be strong at the end

I for one miss the old days when the manager came up with the strategies and the players did what they were asked to do. So many guys in today's game who are way more worried about themselves than the team. But that comes with the territory when the money gets to where it is

JV is a prima donna without a doubt and he is going to do what he can to push the Astros to use him the way that benefits him, and he has things that are more important to him than how he feels when he enters the playoffs

But the guy was a HUGE part of our first title, and he can still pitch to a very high level when he is healthy.

I just hope we don't miss a chance to do what is best for Framber and Javier down the stretch because we were pandering to JV's contract

 

I address the issues with skipping a starter, I think piggy backing guys 3-4 innings each would address this and further the agenda of keeping guys fresh.

Example

Mon: Urquidy
Tues: France
Wed : Framber
Thu: JV
Fri: Javier
Sat: Brown
Sun: Urquidy 4IP / France 3 IP
Mon : -- day off--
Tues : Framber
Wed : JV
Thu: Javier
Fri: Brown
Sat: France
Sun: Urquidy
Mon: Framber
Tue: JV
Wed: Javier
Thu: -- day off --
Fri: Brown 4IP / France 3 IP
Sat: Urquidy

 

What's JV gonna do? Not pitch? That won't get him any money. If anything, he'll be wanting to go longer in the games he's out there . . . which is a good thing.

 

If JV is healthy and pitching well, we'd want him to pick up the option anyway. Which, I think, is more likely with more rest. If he's injured or pitching poorly, we wouldn't. Both of which are more likely if he's overworked.

Maybe there's a way to modify the incentive structure to focus on something other than innings, if you're trying to get buy in on a 6 man rotation. Or just reduce the innings trigger to account for the reduced chances.

The other thing you could do is go 5 man and make up random injuries for starters during the season to get them rest. That seems to be part of the Dodgers' MO. Again, though, JV isn't going along with something that reduces his workload, which is the whole point of the expanded rotation.

 

Let's hope they can talk him into then - he was clearly not as worn down last year after missing the beginning of the season.

 

My memory may be faulty, but routine seemed to be JV's early reluctance to change his 4 pitcher routine with 4 days off most weeks and spot starters during portions of the season with strings of games. The difference with a 5 pitcher rotation or 6 pitcher rotation is whether you skip the 5th or 6th pitcher after a day off or not. Practically, they blend together with usage and injury.

That's why my 6 pitcher schedule has pitchers pitching the same day of the week if there is 1 day off during the week or you have 2 days off and skip a starter. It also work if you have 7 games and bring up a spot starter. The advantage is ROUTINE and REST.