Should Sengun play PF? And if so, where does Smith play?

reported.

 

No reason to change now, both of them could get stronger/better at positioning for rebounds. On paper it's a good fit.

 

I know @Nook has been pushing for Sengun at the 4, but I still don't see it. I think he can develop traits to make himself a better defensive center (strength, positioning) but I don't think he can develop the lateral quickness to stay with many modern power forwards on the perimeter.

Maybe you could do a "two bigs" kind of lineup with a very switchable PF/C alongside him and which position each of them guards would depend on matchups. Not sure whether that's Jabari or not--depends on how he fills out and develops. Right now he seems more like a combo forward, but maybe he'll add a lot of bulk, and if that's the case IDK.

 

It's really an absurd suggestion. We're the #24 offense right now. What do you think happens if we start a rim protector ad move Sengun to the 4 while benching Jabari the 37% shooter on the one of the worst shooting teams in the NBA? We get worse at shooting. We get worse at offense. We get worse than 24th on offense. Meaning we are going to be exactly as bad as we were under Silas running the offense, with KPJ running the point, Stone wanting to lose and Tilman praying for Wemby. That's after adding two good catch and shoot players in Brooks and FVV. What the heck are we doing?

Meanwhile, what do you gain in exchange? How much better than the #8 defense are we going to be? Top 6? Top 4? You think that's what's killing us? 99% of teams that have won a championship have been a top 8 defense. How are you viewing this as the #1 problem on the team?

Starting Sengun at the 5 is the one and only thing that's working on offense while still being a top 10 defense. If you're going to bench someone, it has to be Jalen. He's a below average defender at best and providing little on offense. If you start Cam, you gain scoring and lose defense+passing. If you start Tate or Amen, you gain defense but lose offense. Those are not going to move the needle in terms of wins. You want a better defense? Start Bullock who's a better defender than Jalen yet shooting 39% from 3 - that's a guaranteed improvement on both sides of the court, which means it is guaranteed to impact wins and yes I'm aware Bullock is not a very good defender.

 

I think Sengun will end up being a 4/5. He will eventually develop a very good range shot and he will thrive at the 4. He’s also going to get stronger and get better defensively, and continue to play lots of minutes at the 5. What does that mean for Bari?

Bari has been showing good growth at the 4. This is a guy whose shooting is improving and can get you 16 rebounds with real advantage defensively on opposing 4,s. Bari could see some time at the 5 as he grows into his body and gets stronger. But I hope we’ll see a very switchable 3-man 4/5 rotation between Bari, Sengun, and a legit defensive 5. I don’t see Steven Adams as that guy long term, but he’s a very good stopgap for next season.

 

I agree with this. I think Sengun has been...awful...on defense for a good stretch. But honestly it has seemed less like physical limitations (excluding maybe strength/conditioning?), and mostly just a lack of focus and effort on his part (and seems those have been lacking on offense too at times). If he's not putting in the focus and effort, then I don't care what position he plays. He won't be good on that end regardless. Edit: Oh he's also back to playing super passive to avoid fouls, which annoys me, but I digress.

To be clear, he also has issues where his lack of height, wingspan, athleticism, etc lead to easy baskets for the other team, but I do think this could be easily overcome by whatever he gives you on the offense (plus these typically happen on things like PnR, which is more of a team defense anyway). If he can give you maximum focus and effort (aided by better strength/conditioning), then I'm not personally as worried about his play on defense (especially if he is surrounded by guys like Jabari, Tari, Amen, etc.). I'm not opposed to limited minutes with double big lineups where he plays some 4, but I wouldn't consider it a primary lineup. Maybe I'm wrong and he ends up excelling in that role.

As for Jabari, I think he's fine at the 4. Definitely needs more strength (especially if he is to play spot minutes as the lone big), but not worried about that over time. I don't think he's an elite rim protector, but he seems to be be really good in isolation defense against wings/guards (at least at times), so I'm not opposed to moving him down and inserting another big body at the 4 (assuming it adds things like rim protection...though I'd probably like shooting to also be an option from that player).

Also, even though I've been using the position terminology, I think less about strict positions and more about skillsets these days. I don't really care what position these guys play as long as you have enough shooting, rim protection, rebounding, PoA defense, playmaking, etc. I worry adding another (non Jabari) big could limit the amount of skillsets you can put out at the same time (especially if Sengun fails to develop an outside shot).

 

Sengun is almost too slow to play C on defense. He'll be far too slow to play PF on defense. He is a 5 and always will be.

As for Jabari, my long-term hope for him was always to be a SF. I just think the best case scenario version of Jabari is him as a SF. But, I don't know if that will actually happen. I think it's most likely he stays as a PF.

 

Jabari is 6-11. He is fine, just needs to fill out. Sengun is clearly out of gas at this stage of the season and I'd be curious to ask Nuggets/Pacers fans if the same thing happened to Sabonis/Jokic. It looks like next year is going to be another development year. Cam is what we thought Jalen was going to be and Amen looks like the future at PG so I'd rather start getting them real reps and having DB/FVV off the bench with Tari and Steven Adams. Draft whoever's left from Reed Shephard/Walter with the Nets pick.

Cam should be scoring 20+ next year. Amen should be at 12/8/8. Sengun stat line should look similar. Get Jalen Green, Jock Landale, Reggie Bullock and Jaesean Tate off this ****ing team.

 

No. He is a center.
On the last game of January, his contested opponent fg% rated closely to the other more experienced centers.
in the other Sengun thread, I listed all the match ups he has won against top centers along with players those top centers struggled when they were in year 3.

Let it unfold.

Even with Kobe being an elite all first team defender, they had to acquire Ariza, bring back fisher and poach Ron Artest from us. Why?
So that your offensive hub doesn't exhaust himself on the other end. I have that much faith Jabari will be locksmith name he was given.
By then you can run all kinds of rotations. Smith/Alpi/Aquaman. Smith/Eason/Alpi.

February has been exhausting for him but the strides he's shown all year is very impressive. Next leap this off season.

 

Sengun at the 4 would be a disaster

the boy’s shooting scares no one, so we’d have no choice but to have a spacing C which isn’t exactly easy to come by

 

I just wish he was a shot blocking threat.

 

In the modern era, Sengun is a 5 until he proves to be a consistent perimeter threat. Until that happens any thought of him being something outside of that is a disaster for spacing.

Bari is the modern day 4 and small ball 5. His ability to guard multiple positions is the difference while having size and the ability to shoot both midrange and 3. As he grows into his body his strength will improve.

 

IS SENGUN A POINT FORWARD FROM THIS POINT FORWARD?

 

Jabari needs to look at this guy's game:


Then improve it. Be even more consistent.

Horry played the 3 (Jabari)
Thorpe the 4 (Sengun)
Olajuwon the 5 (Adams)

Rocket River

 

Reaction and awareness are some improvements he needs to make. Sengun be in the position to make the defensive rebound and jsut whiffs. He reacts slowly on defense. He does this on offense some times too. Sometimes it a a focus issue with him which I guess isn’t surprising given his age.

 

Sengun is having a hard time defending centers and the logical conclusion is to have him defend more athletic PFs? Yikes.

 

Totally agree. Our terrible offense makes our defense seem worse. It's just an issue with fan perception, it's how we're programmed. If you're up 65-52 in the third quarter and the other team gets an easy layup, eh, whatever. You'll think "mistakes happen, it's fine, we're dominating - and our defense is playing great." But if your team is down 45-52 trying to claw your way back into the game, you just hit a tough shot to cut the lead to 5, and then the other team gets an easy layup from a defensive mistake, you're going to think "WHERE IS OUR DEFENSE." It's really hard in that moment to tell yourself "defensive mistakes happen, our defense is playing well overall, why do we have 47 points in the third quarter?" That's really our problem. Our horrific offense puts us in a place where it feels like we need EVERY stop and we have to play with 0 defensive mistakes, so it magnifies our perception of those mistakes. If we had a good offense it wouldn't feel this way.

 

Having Sengun next to like Jalen Duren isn’t feasible at all.

Man if we had Chet though.