Ukraine

So many ignorant people here, every time we abandon Europe we get drawn into a bigger conflict, it is BETTER to be proactive - it is CHEAPER to be proactive, it is SAFER to be proactive.

Isolationism will not, does not, work.

DD

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

would hit

 

Great ****ing DD here to spew his nonsense bullshit just shut the **** up dude. Go back to your video games and stop literally telling us "print more money"


American tax payer dollars are for the american people, not oligarchs and military contractors (who already showed what they did with the trillion in afghanistan)

 

The U.S. had a $1.7 trillion deficit in 2023. A $1.375 trillion deficit in 2022 etc etc.

We have a $34.23 trillion debt. We are projected to have a $89 trillion dollar debt by 2030. We are projected to have a $150 trillion dollar debt by 2055.

$150 trillion dollar debt is something like over a $1 million a household.

We are spending $1 trillion a year on defense even though we aren't at war.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair Adm. Michael Mullen famously warned, "the most significant threat to our national security is our debt." At the time, the nation's federal debt was roughly $13.5 trillion. Congress and our government have completely ignored Mr. Mullen's warning; our national debt has now surpassed $30 trillion and is growing exponentially.

Those are not sustainable figures. We are close to spending a $1 trillion a year just servicing our debt. That figure is only growing. Entire federal revenues for 2023 was like $5 trillion. Soon, we will be forced cut spending everywhere, including defense spending. This likely leads to economic decline.

We simply cannot afford this defense budget and role as world police. That's what I mean when I say, "We simply cannot afford this."

It's not a good investment of US time and resources to make sure dictators are not bullying their neighbors because those actions do not threaten Americans physical or economic security.

Normal Americans are not in physical danger from the Russian Federation or PRC. The Russians nor Chinese want to get in a shooting war with us. No Russian or Chinese military equipment are going to be rolling up any American streets.

Economically, localized aggression by the Russian or Chinese may upsets markets near term but those market have and will adjust.

No American would notice, economically speaking, if they woke up and Riga was controlled by the Russians tomorrow. Nobody really noticed economically speaking when they woke up and Russia controlled Crimea in 2014. If one day in February 2022 Americans had woken up to find out Russia controlled Kiev, that might have disrupted the markets a bit but markets would have adjusted and no Americans QoL would have dropped an ounce.

Not sure your theory that Putin is going to starve the people of Africa by withholding Ukrainian grain is correct. Not sure where you came up with that notion.

We aren't the world police. That's not our job. Doesn't say that's our job anywhere. Localized aggression by far off dictators isn't our responsibility to prevent. Small countries getting gobbled up by larger ones is the history of the world. Not our job to prevent it. Even if it happened, wouldn't effect our QoL at all.

Ruzzia is going to conquer the world is nonsense. Ruzzia doesn't have the demographic, military or economic strength to do it. It's just Boomer fear mongering about Ruzzia.

 

So many folks fall hook, line and sinker for the MIC propaganda about what terrible things Russia and China are going to do to us (What exactly? Seriously, I have no idea what people really think Russia or China are going to do to us). MIC collects its $1 trillion a year. Rinse, wash, repeat.

 

People have active imaginations.

I really do wonder what people like you think Putin would achieve if the U.S. left Europe to its own devices.

Like Russian tanks in Trafalgar square or something? Russian tanks rolling up the Champs-Elysees? Comical.

 

Was looking forward to amateur historian hour from the Boomers who saw a 45 minute documentary on Munich on the History channel 20 years ago.

There analysis is always riveting. Very compelling stuff.

 

If the US left NATO, and each country were basically on their own again, Europe would have to pick up all the slack. If they can't, and Russia wins in Ukraine, what comes next is based on Putin's public statements about seeking a return of the Russian Empire. Countries that were formerly partially or wholly part of the Russian Empire, such as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland, and Romania (all current members of NATO and the EU), may be next.

BTW, Finland, which was neutral, joined NATO in 2023 because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

Ive been against foreign aid, but a 14 billion aid package to just Israel is 1000x better than this ****

Its telling they passed this at the time they did. These people are not here looking out for US citizens, they are sold to the highest bidder

 

What have the citizens of Mauii gotten thus far? This money is going to Ukranian oligarchs and military contractors here.

 

Maybe its time for the entitled Europeans to go back to the dark age if they can't protect themselves from Russia.

 

Google is not helping. Source?

 

Yes. What’s comical is the lack of understanding of what one evil person can do. History repeats itself. It’s happened before and it can happen again. It’s not comical to accept that is a possibility. It’s ignorant to think it is not.

 

We live in an interconnected and globalized world. We already saw food and energy rise very fast during the early days of the Ukrainian war. They’ve come down as it looks like Russia was largely contained. We also saw how during CoVid supply chains especially from Asia were disrupted. A PrC invasion of Taiwan will lead to a disruption of supply chains unlike anything we’ve ever seen as it would involve the worlds second largest economy fighting the worlds leading supplier of advanced chips in a theater that includes some of the busiest shipping routes in the world.

It also wouldn’t just affect imports to the US as the US is a major exporter too especially of agricultural goods. Asia is a major buyer of American soybeans and other ag products and a war affecting that trade would be economically devastating to places like Iowa.

 

Ukraine is pretty much the model of how the US could still help curb aggression towards our allies, protect the global economy without committing US troops.

Provide and other aid while leaving the fighting to the country directly affected. Use diplomacy to strengthen regional alliances and use sanctions to isolate the aggressors.

 

That is not how any of this works, we are tied to Europe as they go so go we.

DD

 

I think only under certain circumstances.

The country directly affected needs to honestly want to fight, have the capacity to do so, and have the right leadership. Vietnam couldn't follow that model - they had weak leadership, and they did have people willing to fight for their country, except it was on the Vietcong side.

The Ukrainians are fighting for their country; they have shown the capacity to do so and demonstrated strong civilian leadership. What they lack is the "ammunition" to fight, but have so far received help on that front from the EU and the US. BTW - many people don't realize this, but Europe as a whole has provided more support to Ukraine than the US.