The thing is Lillard is not really that much younger but he is still a tons more mobile than Harden....if we are talking them now.... He might fall off a cliff athletically......soon....but hey. Harden has achieved much more of course in terms of individual accolades and a few team accolades.
Yes - it will be less meaningful unless he does well in the Finals. Harden's numbers are better in the regular season than post season and he has had some poor post season series - but his overall post season performance is better than a lot of other starts.
I don't know if he can even reach the WCF, Harden has always had chance to win a ring... From day 1 he had the likes of Durant and Westbrook to then Howard and Chris Paul and Westbrook to Durant and Irving to Embiid and Harris to now Kawhi and George.... What changes this season? Has there ever been a star his caliber play with these many hall of fame players and not win it all?
That's oversimplifying a bit. Post OKC, the only years where one of those HOF teammates were in their prime was 2018 and 2021, both years his team may have won if healthy.
When you add context to all of this it’s not as damning as you make it seem. First off during his peak he just so happened to be playing at the same time as Lebron(2nd best player ever) and Curry’s Warriors(arguably the best team ever). Something that really shouldn’t be glossed over. It was hard for anyone but those two to win for the majority of Hardens peak. His first stint with Durant and Westbrook they were all in their early 20s. That they even managed to get to the finals is pretty unheard of for a group that young and no one expected them to win it all. Howard was by no means bad, but he was no where near peak HOF level Dwight and he very quickly fell off a cliff in terms of impact. The Paul pairing worked magnificently. 65 wins. Dominant. And then Paul got hurt. Westbrook was no longer HOF impact Westbrook when we got him. He like Dwight fell off dramatically and quickly from his peak. When he teamed with Durant and Irving you could argue once again it was working magnificently but injuries and Kyrie sabotaged that from ever taking off. By the time he’s gotten to Philly Harden is no longer the same top 5-10 impact player anymore. Embiid also drastically underperformed in the playoffs compared to his regular season dominance. All of that said Harden still had many opportunities to perform better in key spots and could have cemented himself as more than a top 30ish guy of all time. He shares plenty of blame for never getting it done in all these situations, but to just list a bunch of HOF players he played with and say “how could he never get it done with these guys?” is a disingenuous characterization of how each scenario played out. In my opinion at least. I’m sure some will disagree.
For all his additional mobility . .. Dame is still only as good if not a worse defender than Harden Rocket River
Harden does have some really good excuses, LeBron was playing in a different conference thou and Harden just couldn't get deep enough in the playoffs for LeBron to be a factor.... Non prime Howard played better than Harden in the playoffs and Harden was up at halftime twice vs GSW. I think its time to decide whether Harden was a 1st option franchise player or a 3rd, as a 3rd option I get the excuses. How was Harden going to lead his team against GSW without a true super star leading the team. But if we are going to treat Harden like a superstar he also has to take in the criticism of not accomplishing something the other players in his class were... Lebron, Curry, Giannis and even Kawhi at the time alongside Durant were there with Harden as the best players in the league and they all did it. Except Harden... Because some of the stars he played with were not in their prime does not mean they weren't good if not great alongside an MVP, if that's the case Harden will never win a chip. If the requirement for Harden to get a chip is to have two hall of famers in their absolute peak prime then quite frankly what's the argument? Harden just isn't good enough. Can't have it both ways, Harden can't be considered an all time great with excuses if the excuses are he wasn't good enough without hall of fame peak talent.
I still think Harden could not effectively share the ball with other 'star players' to the extent that it massively helped his team winning..... He is now deferring but when he was the apex guy.....none of it. I mean sharing the usage rate of course and not doing the fancy passing. It is obvious to me......also I remember Kobe actually playing the 2nd fiddle in some of the games until he took over from Gasol.......it is hard to imagine Harden doing that, he tried with CP3....but rarely.
So, there you go... Harden as the apex guy and system does not get you a chip. The results were the exact same for nearly a decade, can he win a chip? Sure, in the right team at the right time.... Jeremy Lin got one...
But it was not as difficult as he made it to be......also I think he had multiple off the court issues that were just reported later... Like him being a diva in road games, missing a film session because he went to the strip clubs and returned too late.....etc etc..... He behaved like Dennis Rodman, had extra rules made for him but he was actually the leader of the team. You cannot work with a guy who is hooping but enjoying the off the court life too much.....Dennis was an impact role player but not your alpha. Your alphas were like Jordan and LBJ who were rigorous during the season, they only partied in the offseason and nothing really excessive.....at least none that I heard of. Jordan was more of a gambler, had excessive money to throw out, that was a minor problem which did not stop him from playing great basketball.
I’m really not denying much of anything here. The guys you listed will all end their careers higher on the all time greats list other than maybe Kawhi only because he was so injury riddled, but no doubt peak Kawhi was better. Even if Harden gets one with Clippers before he retires I don’t think he will jump much higher than 30ish on the all time list because of his lessened role on this current team. Id argue the Harden/CP3 pairing was good enough. CP3 wasn’t his peak self, but he was exactly what Harden needed as a complement. Yes, Harden could have still done it with the 3-2 lead and without Paul if he came up bigger. The chance was there and he didn’t play well enough, but I think most would agree they would have been overwhelming favorites to finish them if Paul doesn’t get hurt. That formula of MVP level Harden plus a great but not peak Paul was capable.
That's harsh given the extra 3 players the NBA gave the Warriors for games 6 and 7 on OUR home court. If the crowd at TCM wasn't so fair weather and full of frauds at the lower bowl, they would've put the fear of God into those zebras and threaten them by force to at least make calls that weren't blatantly terrible on the jumbotron replays. That 0 for 27 dry spell (plus the one three Harden DID make but was waved away with a non shooting foul) was not all on Harden but rather Morey/MDA madness combined with a team whom collectively lost confidence that they could beat the odds with the tone the refs set. I guess cp3 could've broken that pattern, disrupted their defense and make tough midrange shots only he and harden were allowed to take, but that a different dimension we dont live in. Instead fraudulent and shameless asses like Kerr and Meyers talk about that series as the crowning achievement of their genius. Excuse me while I dry heave uncontrollably.
Kawhi currently rocking a career high in FG%, career high in 3 point percentage, and a career high TS PG also has a career high FG%, tied for a career high in 3 point percentage, and a career high TS some would say that’s just a coincidence
Ah I see the Harden is only good during the regular season crowd is back lol. It's either Harden just flat out sucks and is waashed or Harden is only good in the regular season. He's shut so many people up
Ah I see that Harden has won another Championship in February. Congratulations on beating the 22-28 Hawks for the title. When’s the parade?
Never forget the golden rule. When he’s good it usually doesn’t count, when he sucks it counts. Every time.
