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Is the Chinese economy about to implode?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Sep 22, 2023.

  1. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    So are you saying it was easier for China to come out all its problems in the 1970s than solving the issues it faces today? If it was so easy, why couldn't India or Africa or South-Central America do it?
     
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  3. adoo

    adoo Member

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    it appears that
    IMHO, given the size of the Chinese economy, ~~ $18 trillion or ~` 18% of the global GDP, this stimulus is not sufficient

    this is reminiscent of W's bailout plan to rescue the US financial industry, during the 2008/2009 time frame. it failed, because it ($700 billion) was too small,
    which necessitated a second bailout (~$500B) from the in-coming new POTUS. Presicent Obama's bigger bailout was effective in lifting the cratering US economy from the ashes
     
  4. adoo

    adoo Member

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    in the 1970s, China was, for the most part, a S I M P L E agarian economy; before Nixon's visit, it was isolated from the rest of the world.

    5 decades of industrialization / international trade have added immense complexity to the chinese economy, becoming the 2nd largest one in the world,
    to where its currency has been granted Special Drawing Rights, by the IMF, on international transactions.
     
    #104 adoo, Jan 23, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  5. adoo

    adoo Member

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    correction

    President Obama's additional bailout was effective in lifting the cratering US economy from the ashes​
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    We will see in a few years how this turns out.
     
  7. adoo

    adoo Member

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    actually there is sufficient economic data available to conclude that
    • the Chineses economic growth has been declining steadily, exacerbated by the mounting deflationary pressures noted above.
    • the stimulus plan, as contemplated by the Chinese Govt, appears to be insuffient to counter the deflationary pressures
     
    #107 adoo, Jan 23, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    Much stronger and better central government planning via modernization. It was historic in scope but it was still "low hanging fruit" as the US has undergone this in varying capacities a handful of times.

    I don't think China is going to implode but it's definitely entering a slower growth phase. Time will tell sooner than later about Xi's policies, but I'm pessimistic.
     
    FranchiseBlade and pirc1 like this.
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    No I’m saying the means that they used in the 70’s and 80’s can’t be used now to address current economic problems.
     
    Nook and pirc1 like this.
  10. adoo

    adoo Member

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    China's stock market rescue / stimulus package,

     
  11. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    .
    Chinese household saving has increased .
    Chinese spending has diminished, its a challenge but not a catastrophe
     
  12. adoo

    adoo Member

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    on the day after the Chinese fiscal authorities made this announcement , its central bank bank announced a cut in the reserve requirement ratio for banks within two weeks, while hinting at more support measures to come,
    https://www.reuters.com/world/china...t-month-bolster-economic-recovery-2024-01-24/, adding another ~~~ $200 billion liquidity to the economy

    this 2nd move corrborates the concerns expressed by analysts that the original $278 stimulus package is inadequate


    monkey see, monkey do.

    after seeing the US used a two-prong attack to effectively rescue its economy on multiple occasions
    • when the US financial industry bankrupted during W's last year in office
    • when Covid, trade war and the Russian invasion of Ukraine led to high inflation and slow growth,
    • when the US was in the midst of the Great Depression,
    China is using fiscal policies---as well as using the monetary tool box---to fixed it mounting economic woes.
     
    #112 adoo, Jan 25, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2024
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Evergrande was a giant ponzi scheme, it works on property values are going up, it falls apart when there is a major correction. The founder is arrested, unlike many white collar criminals in this country.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  15. adoo

    adoo Member

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    if any country is in need of a QE program to reverse deflation, it'd be China.

    it won't because it's currency is too weak relative to the global reserve currency, the US dollar.
    more importantly, the interest rate is china has been declining to ~ 3.45%, not close enough to zero

    the next best tools available are, fiscal stimuli and lowering the reserve requirements; both useful tools , but as as effective as QE​
     
    #116 adoo, Jan 29, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2024
  16. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    You are correct,

    China central bank also don't want to get into a situation where there will be a credit bubble in the future. I think Chinese property market need this correction, people were buy properties under the assumption it will always go up, now they will think twice before speculating on properties, it also makes it much easier for young people to be able to afford to buy homes, which is a good thing.
     
  17. adoo

    adoo Member

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    ur clueless, have no idea what ur talking about.

    instead of just hoping,

    wish that you'd put forth the effort to gain the ability to justify your opinion with economic reasoning.​
     
    #118 adoo, Jan 29, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2024
    pirc1 likes this.
  18. adoo

    adoo Member

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    when this monetary stimulus was announced last Thur,

    i was surprised.

    this belated news explains why China's 2nd move


    China’s manufacturing activity shrank for the fourth straight month in January


    China’s factory activity contracted for a fourth consecutive month in January, underscoring the much-needed litany of policy support for the world’s second-largest economy which Beijing announced last week.​
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Evergrande was part of Chinese economic policy. It just clearly went on for too long.
     
    pirc1 likes this.

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