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Ime Udoka press conference after loss to Hawks 12/20/2023

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Dec 20, 2023.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    It's true. By far the #1 thing the Rockets are lacking is a scoring anchor. Someone other than Sengun who is a reliable and efficient 20-25 points while being a part of a top tier defense.

    We're 19th in offense and 6th in defense. I think it's about time we started to pay more attention to offense, but there are some final kinks they are working out with the defense. There were several breakdowns in the Hawks game.
     
    Rocketeer, clos4life, jim1961 and 2 others like this.
  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Part of our scoring problem is that we need our best shooters taking more of the shots.

    2PT shooters ranked by %, with most attempts taken listed #1, #2, and #3.

    Jeff Green
    Sengun #1
    Brooks
    J. Smith
    Eason
    Tate
    Holiday
    Jalen Green #2
    VanVleet #3

    Jalen ranks so low on his shooting efficiency I just don't get why he's even getting more than 15 min a game, and would rather see Jeff Green, Eason, or even Holiday or Tate in there instead of him. Both VanVleet and Green take too many 2 PT shots and are not even close to being most efficient at them. I'd rather see Jeff Green, Eason, and Jabari taking more of those shots.

    3PT shooters ranked by %, with most attempts taken listed #1, #2, and #3

    Holiday
    Brooks #3
    Eason
    VanVleet #1
    J. Smith
    Tate
    Jalen Green #2

    As far as shots behind the arc, Jalen Green is the worst, and shouldn't be taking so many. The best shooters need to be taking more of those, and if that means keeping Green on the bench more, I don't think that's a bad idea. It's not like he's one of our best defensive players.
     
    #62 deb4rockets, Dec 21, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2023
  3. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.
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    Specifically referred to the groin doink and the 30 footer he took in transition when we needed the bucket, but hey, have fun with your strawman.
     
  4. rocketchamp

    rocketchamp Member

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    Great point
     
  5. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    No I don't think this is aligned with the vision at all to be honest. I have 0 interest in Jeff Green or Holiday taking shots over Jalen/Jabari even if making them more often. There's no comparison in terms of return on investment. We're not trying to win games with mediocre players. We're trying to put our young players in the fire in key positions and we signed the highest quality role players available in the market to surround them. We play very much like a team but this team made no plans to be carried by anyone's scoring except Green/Sengun in the starting lineup. No one else has the potential to be a big 2pt scorer and gaining that is more valuable that a few wins in the short term.

    We're neither going all-in winning mode (prefering any short term stat over long term ones) nor are we going full development mode. It's all winning mode no excuses with priority given to the players we tanked for or drafted. Jabari/Green/Sengun/Tari/Amen/Whitmore should slowly receive all the shots.

    I do think Jalen needs to cut out his least effective shot (mid range) and spend more time polishing his finishing and shooting. He's developed rapidly on defense and passing in a short period of time, I believe Ime will improve his shot selection too.
     
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  7. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    I think you undervalue the lessons learned from winning. There are lessons in losing too. And more importantly, lessons in benching. Good players, smart players make the most of these lessons. Bad ones do not. This is another way to test the crop.
     
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    No I really don't think so. I just don't care about the difference between 35 wins and 40 wins this season. I'm more interested in what we're winning in this entire era.
     
  9. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Yah, YOU don’t care. That wasn’t the point. What you get out of it isn’t important. It’s what Jalen gets out of it and does from it. Ultimately that matters. PT and shot reps are not the only thing that improves your game. And how can a coach be accountable if he can’t allow others to take shots simply because they weren’t drafted recently or as high as someone who has had 2 years to do whatever and take whatever shot they want on the court. Your idea that the only way to develop is to force feed bad shots didn’t pan out for the Monte Ellis and the rest of the volume shooters of the 2000s. That’s where Jalen is headed if he’s not treated like just another player earning his reps.
     
  10. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    That’s why the question needs to be asked why is this happening? What are some factors that brought about this? Why have his numbers declined after a steady progression in his second year? The answers I believe are in how the Rockets play and his own lack of aggression as he is trying to adapt to this new style of play.

    I think this style seems forced. If coaches are supposed to find ways to bring out the best in players and maximize their strengths then Udoka isn’t doing it. Green is a dynamic run and gun player but underutilized in the fast break as Rockets opt for a slowed down approach on the break with FVV often not looking for Green on the run out. He is an iso player his iso plays per game has decreased and overall freq% has decreased.

    FVV has never been great at getting into the paint and scoring based on his past numbers and how he played with the Raptors. He isn’t Brunson, Shai, or Jamal Murray but he is asked to do everything on this team as primary ball handler, PNR handler, dribble drive playmaker. I think this is a mistake to put everything on Fred and not fair to him because that’s not his game. He is great as a facilitator finding players as he weaves around the court and can be used for PNR but I think the volume of touches needs to decrease.

    This is why we often see the offense stall out when he doesn’t get the PNR or Sengun post and he tries to make a dribble drive play but just can’t finish or doesn’t draw contact in the paint resulting in ball going the other way. Too much is being asked of Fred. Remember in Toronto he wasn’t a dominant dribble drive play making guard. He was a jump shooter while guys like Siakim and OG were used for those roles.
     
  11. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I think you have a point, but the entire offense cant be made to cater to Green.
    All the other guys strengths and weaknesses have to be tallied as well.

    Playing a slow half court game is the Rockets plan it seems. Green needs to adapt.
     
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  12. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    If he is your best offensive weapons in terms of getting into the paint and on the break then yes you should focus your offense around your best players. I never said focus the entire offense on him. I said he needs more touches, more isos, more opportunities to score on the break and make plays in the paint and forcing FVV to be Brunson isnt it. It makes little sense. Teams always prioritize their best players and seek ways to maximize their strengths. Besides Rockets showed they can run on the break last 2 years. Much of those players are still here.

    That’s why I think Silas and Rockets management went wrong when they wasted 2 years with the KPJ experiment instead of getting a vet pg that could have mentored Jalen those 2 years much like how CP3 did with Shai. I think Jalen could be a primary ball handler or at the very least have the ball in his hands to make decisions whether in PNR, ISO, or off the dribble drive. Needs to be balance with Sengun post PNR and Jalen. Udoka wants to replicate what DEN has done but FVV isn’t that guy. Now you have a problem. Either FVV goes or Green. I just know in my opinion it’s not working or where it needs to be. And most would agree the offense isn’t good. Stay tuned.
     
    #72 Stephen_A, Dec 22, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2023
  13. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    This is all a work in progress and we are way ahead of schedule in terms of wins. That's why fans are impatient. Udoka and Stone are taking a much more patient approach. We can increase our wins while still slowly integrating our young guys into a new offense and defense. FVV has always taken a slow approach in bringing up the ball. Soon as he became our main pg that dictated a bit of a slow down on offense. It is working for the most part with our 1st unit. Hopefully as Amen progresses our second unit will be much more fast paced and really turn on the gas. The one issue with that is defensive rebounding. We only have 1 rebounder on the 2nd unit and that is Tari. We need a backup center badly. If we sign another shooting guard and move Jalen to the bench we could have a tremendous advantage in the transition game with Amen, Jalen, Tari, and even Tate if he is still here. Somebody will have to secure the rebound (Tari can't get them all). We need a decent backup center.
     
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    When Tari is in the game, the Rockets are destroying opponents.
     
  15. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Vindication for those of us who have always wanted a PG for this team. A real PG is cerebral and gets people where they need to be.
     
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  16. TimDuncanDonaut

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    The team did try to run and gun, during Silas era, team was turnover prone. So wasn't like it wasn't tried before.

    Transition is also opportunistic like off of TO's, so frequency is limited. My gripe is at some point you have to learn how to play the halfcourt. Can't keep procrastinating it.

    Last two games (abeit losses), team did push transition more. In those doses, that's fine. Score some before defense is set.

    On the playmaker, Green was also tried with the 2nd unit in staggered lineup, results weren't great. Green is still with first unit so they can still try more offensive wrinkles with Green and Sengun, or maybe Green and FVV. Other than be patient, not sure what else to go on until we see the next game.
     
    #76 TimDuncanDonaut, Dec 22, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2023
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  17. Magicsaint

    Magicsaint Member

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    I think Sengun was aggressive. He has just been making mistakes. It happens. If 2-3 out of 10 games he makes some mistakes, he should be given a pass. The team's overall defensive grit has been missing in the past few games. Tari missing a game does not help either. I think they will come around. I just hope Green improves
     
  18. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I think this may not be the final iteration. Udoka wanted to play this way that’s why he opted FVV over Harden. It was an interesting decision but I understand since the move was about building culture and identity. To me the problem is obvious even after only 25 games. The offense isn’t enough and to put it all on a player who never played that role in his career is really baffling to me and asking that player to do too much meanwhile under utilizing Green. In hindsight I think bringing in Harden would make the team very dynamic and balanced on offense running the break, ally oops, Harden scoring more efficiently off high screen and 2 man game with Jalen and Sengun both. May give a little on defense. It’s interesting but decision has been made so we will see where this leads to. But that’s the reason FVV has 3rd year team option I believe.
     
  19. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    He's still one of the worst shooters on the team. The others should get their shot at "developing" while Green comes in for a few minutes off the bench to show what he's practiced. I believe the others will improve too, but I just don't think Jalen is all he was hyped up over. The guy seriously takes too many shots as it is.
     
  20. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    The fast break was more dynamic and allowed easy buckets. Turnovers may have been a result of inexperience and coaching at that time and as we know players grow and develop especially when there are multiple vet pieces added this year. The Rockets did turn the ball over but they also ran when they got the chance and was in top 10 in and 1 frequency off the break and had a decent fouled frequency%. Fast breaks give you a chance at easier buckets but also put pressure on defenses.
     

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