Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

And I and many others have said many times before that the Palestinians deserve their own state, their own chance for self-determination and economic development. I've said that Israel's policy of collective punishment is responsble for a lot of what is happening. For that I've been called an anti-Semite and someone who doesn't care about Jewish lives.

The problem I see with your position is that it is as one sided as those who believe Israel can do no wrong. You're excusing the actions of those who claim to fight for the Palestinians because Israeal is so much wealthier and powerful.

 

Given that I explicitly typed that I understand the base desires for revenge and that any modern nation state would do the same, I'm assuming you aren't reading. Nation states aren't good moral agents of toy have figured out.

I don't think you understand what I'm frustrated about with your rhetoric.

I want you to understand the line "collateral damage is a natural aspect of war" is privileged like. Only privileged people say this.

And yes in putting the onus on the nation state that is a actively denying the rights of a group of humans self determination. That's how we as mature adults analyze these situations.

The entity that has more agency is the one that the onis should be placed on.

 

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The problem I have with your position is believing in the concept of collateral damage being inevitiable. Can you admit that is coming from a place of privilege for you? Can you do that at least?

I've never seen someone who has family members who are victims of collateral damage being able to do this magic hand waving. I wonder why?

Can we stop treating the IDF as some natural force of nature instead of the moral conscious agent it is?

 

Do you think I'm belittling you or your concept of manhood by calling out your privileged take on collateral damage?

I think everyone has a a form of privilege when living in non warzones. So I'm not trying to. Is that what is preventing you from admitting that you have a privilege by handwaving collateral damage?

 

However much you hate mainstream media, its not enough

 

I think there's a huge difference is "handwaving collateral damage" and realizing "there's almost zilch I can do about collateral damage in Gaza from my comfortable position behind this keyboard and even if I march around yelling in my American community, that will not bend the ongoing curve of US policy."

At lower levels, we are all suffering different kinds of collateral damage here, from runaway consumer toxins, predatory financial vehicles, labor unfriendly policies, for-profit healthcare, the angertainment industry, etc. None of that compares to having loved ones buried in rubble, but I'm just saying we accept all sorts of collateral damage every day all day long and just keep putting one foot in front of the other and paying our taxes and service fees and supporting the many beasts that chew people up.

 

By that same logic there is nothing we can do about how a group of humans respond(often with indiscriminate violence on innocent civilians) to being in a collective open air prison/ghetto for decades.

So at the end of the day as observers is not knee jerk defend the side that has the modern conventional war machine who is actively suppressing the rights of a group of humans to have self determination.


I don't think any American has the moral right to minimize collateral damage. It's an easy thing to say under the airspace of American security.

 

all of these nutjobs you see supporting Hamas on college campuses with soon be burrowed deep in news organizations, university administration, and government agencies

 

Israel has a responsibility to limit collateral damage, however we all know that in war, it is inevitable, especially when terrorists are hiding behind civilian shields.

Hopefully, eventually the regular folks in that area can work with Israel to root out the terrorists, that would help eliminate a lot of the civilian deaths.

This discussion is more of an academic type - and none of us can do much about what is going on other than discuss the situation.

DD

 

Has there been any negative consequence from the US for what Hamas did? What actions have we taken to deter this from happening again? Have we put any pressure on Qatar or Iran?

Will there be any attempt by US Special Forces to rescue the American hostages?

The weakness is palpable.

 

This happened in Paris a few days ago. French Police are on edge at the moment.





Not blaming anybody, stickers could be a hard-right false flag for all I know, but there is some context.

There is also a ban on pro-Hamas demonstrations in public that was upheld by the French supreme court, so if someone was being sly, it literally would have been a criminal offense.

 

Bard is agnostic on this issue.