ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Spurs 10/18/2023 (Preseason)

I would say the proof is never on the court in preseason - and definetly not, when 3 starters and probably our 6th man are out for the game. But it it kind of a moot point. I believe both teams will finish outside of the play ins. Going forward, if Wemby is what we think he is, he will attract other talent and they will compete for a championship in the next 3 years. If not, they only have some dudes. And for us the question is, do we have any special players, or do we also just have some dudes...

 

So basically the major rivals for the Play In are:

I think for now the Thunder and Timberwolves are above anyone ......and fighting for 6th or 7th seed.
The Clippers are a Wild Card.

Pelicans
Jazz
Mavericks - another Wild Card team
Blazers
San Antonio

Pretty stacked competition.

 

It looks like Sengun, Jalen, and even Tari are clearly adjusting to the new system. They seem to be thinking about what to do on the court instead of just playing and letting their instincts take over during these early games. They will eventually adjust as the season goes on and will be fine. It takes time to get used to a new coach, new system, point guard, and teammates. The Rockets will do well as the season wears on. Give them time.

 

I raged quit the game at halftime. Anything good happened?

 

Jack Landale came in.

 

This. These guys are drinking from a fire hose. Sengun is thinking too much. His game will come around. People complaining about his defense are way off. He was victim of a lot of ticky tack calls. The refs are definitely treating Wemby with kid gloves. It will be interesting to see if this continues after the real season starts.

 

I am not reading too much into this one.

Most of our best defenders were not playing (Brooks, Eason) for one.
It was DEVIN VASSELL that killed us, not Wemby.
From the middle of the 1st qtr on, we played even with them.

Alpi needs to figure it out.

 

Sengun didnt want any smoke.

 

I think this really shows how valid your analysis is comparing Vaseel and Green's scoring efficiency.


Vassel first two NBA seasons:
9 ppg 1 apg 53% ts with 20% of his fgs made unassisted

Green:
20 ppg 54% ts 3.3 apg 54% of his fgs made unassisted.

Vaseel is a role player, Green isn't. Green was in fact more efficient than Vassel while being the center of defensive attention and creating almost all his own shots on mich higher volume than Vassel at the same stage.

 

Oh my god please just stawwwwwp with the constant Jalen Green Iron Dome defense - it's so tiring to read.

All I'm saying is that most people dont' consider 1 guy to be "easily better" than the other as NBA players right now - for example (and this is just one example) - Green comes in at 80th in ESPN's NBArank. Vassell is unranked. Meanwhile over at the Ringer, Vassell is 85th and Green is unranked.

That is one piece of evidence that indicates to me that neutral observers don't perceive a huge amount of difference between the players, which combined with their very similar level of production last year, means it's ok for me to say "they're in the same stratum"*

*Except of course in @fchowd0311 universe where every non-positive utterance is a blood libel that must be avenged

 

A piece of advice for following national media coverage of NBA teams.

The worse the team is the worse the analysis is. These national media sources are very bad for coverage of lottery teams. Their coverage is centered around the teams that play on their network and are in playoff and champion chases.

The fact that I can analyze what they do on the court and you just look to a ESPN ranking shows your vapid level of analysis.

I'd rather blindly be a homer than being a fake intellectual who claims they are unbiased when in reality they just are negative nancies.

Now actually discuss on court play. AR fyoy capable of that. How many Devin Vassell games have you watched?

 

Except we're dealing with 2 2x Lottery Teams.

The Spurs were as bad or worse than the ROckets last year, yet Zac Lowe is high on Devin Vassell and Jalen Green

Now, please tell me why this is invalid! Let's see how @fchowd0311 escapes this jam.

 

I can tell you by stuff like this:


Vassel first two NBA seasons:
9 ppg 1 apg 53% ts with 20% of his fgs made unassisted
Green:
20 ppg 54% ts 3.3 apg 54% of his fgs made unassisted.


Like ya I get it. You will never actually delve into any arguments I make and make surface level meta arguments about my dedication to the cause and Zach Lowe.

Let's discuss basketball and not the Ringer or Zach Lowe.

Zach Lowe has the same information as I do. He's an accredited writer and therefore is the only difference in basketball analysis acumen than me. That's it. Sports journalism isn't a real thing. It's failed writers for real news establishments trying to form a career. That's sports journalism. I don't need a sports journalist to break down basketball for me like a climate scientist breaking down climate science for me.

 

Sure, and you dont' need me to explain why & how you're skewing the numbers here.

You started off (as usual) arguing from a place of bad faith

It's ironic that you started off claiming my Devin Vassell watching was inferior to yours. Maybe it is. You know whose Devin Vassell Watching is vastly superior to yours and mine?

Zach Lowe, John Hollinger, Kevin Pelton, Sam Vecenie etc - all the analysts who get paid to do this who spend a lot of time not just watching league pass but watching nearly every single game on league pass (or so they claim).

The consensus among those types is that Devin Vassell and Jalen Green are both good young players of a similar ilk -0 maybe you should direct your ire at them outwardly instead of patrolling the BBS for possible Jalen Green slings and arrows and then turning into the same sad personal battle about how "vapid" all of your perceived (but not actual) persecutors are.

Honestly I made a post that the Spurs look much better than the Rockets - anybody who watched the Rockets and spurs play this week would have come to the same conclusion. And as usual you turn the wholte thing into an endless series of perceived Jalen Green slights. It's so nutty. THere are so many other things in the world to be upset about.

What the hell is going on man. Just stop.

 

You made a specific claim about Jalen Green. I didn't just come up with your slight.

You will never actually debate on court talk and use the authority of sports journalism which is hilarious.


There is nothing I skewed.

Devin Vassell at Green's age had a worse scoring efficiency on lower volume and SIGNIFICANTLY easier shot selection. Even last year in his third season he was barely more efficient than Green on less volume and significantly less self creation.

A player like Vaseleel.is only as good as the players setting him up. He will get hot some games and make 4 open thread in a row with some clean open drives to the rim. That's his game.

The Spurs offense won't fall apart because Vaseel is not playing and they are missing their entire dribble penetration game like they do when Green is gone.

I'm glad you hold Zach Lowe in high regard. I'm glad you have people who can spoon feed you narratives rather than just you watching games for yourself.

 

Yeah I've been a Jalen believer and have defended some bad faith arguments against him on the board but that dude just spams every thread with what is very thinly veiled propaganda. I saw him coming at ppl for saying Jabari may be the guy. Jabari has made a dramatic improvement in his game and ppls excitement is warranted and he took that as a Green slight. Tired of seeing every thread devolve into this.

 

Give it a rest.

 

We're 1-1 with them and the time we lost we didn't have Green, Brooks, Unc Jeff and Tari. Easy lol.

 

Offense starting looking better in 3rd when they actually gave Sengun the ball in the post. I don't like him playing at the 3 point line all game. We need to utilize his skill set to mix up our offense. It's not that he scores but they ran a double at him almost immediately and he got open shots for his teammates.

 

Yeah you need to run plays that fit your team not just run your offense despite who you have on the floor, that was the issue with Silas. Hopefully this is just Ime trying things out, its just preseason afterall.