Ben's got a hard on for pace and space era, though. Anything outside of the modern spacing and shooting is inferior to him so he's heavily favoring modern players with bias. Hakeem probably only gets a pass in his eyes bc he can envision his touch and handle being worked on to be a modern day stretch/versatile C, but make no mistake, Ben would think Hakeem needs to work on a lot to hang with the modern era.
I agree with you on Kawhi. For me, I would probably rank him slightly ahead of Pippen. To me, the thing that separates him and AD is sample size and proven success in different environments. AD was unreal in the bubble postseason, and that ring and everything that led to it is totally legit. But only 13 total playoff games in New Orleans and some so-so postseason performance since that year hurts him in my book. I don't need him to have won a solo ring on a bad New Orleans team, but those Pelicans teams weren't very good with him as the alpha—their best season was 48 wins and a second-round exit. The fact that AD really didn't play for many winning teams until he was paired with Lebron in LA hurts him a bit. And I'm not someone who thinks athletes should be able to win rings by themselves or who dings guys for needing help to have more postseason success, but when you're nitpicking the greats, I do think some of that stuff matters. Kawhi may have the same availability issues, but he proved he could thrive and drive success for multiple teams in totally different environments, and his reputation as a stone cold killer is backed up by the data. Funny that they both have identical postseason WS/48 (.225). But one guy has done that over 137 playoff games on three different teams with two rings and two finals MVPs. And the other guy did it over only 55 playoff games with only five total postseasons and no finals MVPs.
For me, when looking at these lists, I think numbers only go so far. I give weight to a player's cultural influence and how they affected the game. For example, more rules were changed for Wilt than anyone, Kareem made a lot of people uncomfortable with his name change and political opinions in ways that purely political figures did not (there is still a good social history to be written about how Wilt and Kareem were portrayed in the media during their long careers and how young Kareem was made a foil to bump older Wilt back up in standing--and yes, a good part of it was racism and fear of anything not Christian), Moses was the first high school kid to play pro ball, Dr J. forced the merger, Bird and Magic made the modern NBA, Dream was one of the first and by far the most skilled and influential international player, Jordan had a monster impact on society and the economics of the game. These aren't necessarily deciding factors in ranking an all-time list, but they have to be given consideration and, I think, are critical when the calls are close.
AnyPooPoo at 22 is a huge stretch IMHO!! I guess having a catchy nick-name has huge merit!! Go Rockets!!! ....... ....... .......
Harden is above Jokic?!! Jokic not only won a championship but is also stat king in how own right. Would put Reggie Miller over C-Melo.
I refuse to accept Tracy McGrady in the top anything. Best player on some Tuesday night regular season game one time list maybe. And Paul George. Paul George sucks, change my mind. ::coffee::
Before YouTube he used to be active in another forum, myself and others who were interested in studying the game's history would converse. Him and others were heavy in advanced metrics and longevity, which is why you see Kareem and LeBron higher now which wasn't always the case in the past. I look at who would dominate with an equal cast at their best, and MJ is the guy IMO, but LeBron is an excellent #2 not taking away the generational talent he is. Years ago, Russell, Wilt, and Bird/Magic were up there until people really started breaking down their defense, competition, team support etc. You can actually tell a fan's level of basketball knowledge by their top ten at times. Casual from hardcore fans and sports analyst like study etc. Hakeem would have developed a three-point shot in this era because he had shooting touch, he actually translates across eras from now to the 60s as well as any player in NBA history. He can switch on guards defensively, score on any big in history and became a strong passer later in the game with the right teammates and system. A quicker better Embiid offensively and Joel is no slouch, but Hakeem was better on defense and as an athlete. He was also much more mentally stronger, check his Game 7 stats under pressure. He was a killer like Jordan.
Dream is my number 1. Yeah, I'm am biased, a homer, and all that. I don't care. He's the best. MJ is pretty good though.
Pretty simple, you could have put the Top 3 best players on the same team minus Lebron, they were playing in similar eras. Don't need a psychic for that. Whoever outplays the others and the rest on that team is No 1.
My psychic said you are trying manipulate me into thinking I don't need her. I believe her. I wouldn't have taken out a second mortgage to pay her if I didn't.
