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[Official] Royals @ Astros

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Sep 22, 2023.

  1. Buck Turgidson

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  2. Buck Turgidson

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    They'll be good again next year
     
  3. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

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    If Click gets canned after winning a f-ing World Series title, then none of the coaching staff should be safe.
     
    SWTsig, Houstunna, phasors28 and 4 others like this.
  4. Stephen66

    Stephen66 Member
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  5. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Man, we gave up Gilbert just to not make the postseason..... What a colossal failure by the front office, should have fired Dusty alongside Click or fired Dusty instead of Click.....
     
    Qan, Houstunna, Bregatron and 5 others like this.
  6. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    Astros should do MLB a service and forfeit any wild card slot. Even if they do somehow make it in. No team deserves to be in the playoffs getting dominated by 100 lose teams the way they are.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Has the statute of limitations run its course on Luhnow’s “ban” from baseball?

    Remember that after they won the WS in 2017… Luhnow then goes out and trades for Gerrit Cole, and they turn him into the most dominant pitcher of the last 5 years. They could have kept club controlled Joe Musgrove, but Luhnow was a ****ing savage at that point.

    Regardless of what happens the rest of this season, they gotta get back to being better than every other team in all phases of the game, including management.
     
    Kim and conquistador#11 like this.
  8. CinematicFusion

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    agree, pitchers need a long break
     
  9. Rocketsglare

    Rocketsglare Member

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    Singleton in the lineup tomorrow?
     
  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Player development is Brown's wheelhouse, so there's that.

    I'm hoping (not a knock on Brown at all) that they'll hire a Stearns-type as president.
     
  11. Cold Hard

    Cold Hard Member

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    Best we can hope for now is that they somehow stumble into the playoffs and suddenly flip that switch into high gear. They're certainly capable of doing that.

    It's more likely though that they will either miss the playoffs, or make it and promptly get blasted in the first round.

    Barring a couple of brief offensive explosions, this Astros team has never really clicked on all cylinders with any consistency all season long. Yes there have been injuries, but that's true of every team in MLB. The roster ain't perfect, but it's not the problem. This team is too "happy"...meaning, they lack killer instinct and fire. There's a reason why Ryne Stanek blowing his top at Dodger Stadium was one of the bigger highlights of the entire season in the eyes of many fans. They are also hamstrung by a stubborn, egotistical manager that should have retired a long time ago. Dusty is La Russa with less baggage.

    Having a losing record at home with the talent this team has is unbelievably ridiculous.
     
    rusHour, Kim, Houstunna and 2 others like this.
  12. Qan

    Qan Member

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    Prediction for tomorrow's lineup.

    Altuve
    Bregman
    Alvarez
    Tucker
    Singleton
    Dubon
    Meyers
    Kessinger
    Maldy
     
    RKREBORN and Stephen66 like this.
  13. Rocketsglare

    Rocketsglare Member

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    Man get rid of all of them and bring Luhnow back. Lol
     
  14. Qan

    Qan Member

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    Can Luhnow come back as the president please?
     
    J.R. likes this.
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    That would be solid.
     
  16. Qan

    Qan Member

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    Can't wait to watch 2 Houston teams lose tomorrow. Maybe 1 will surprise us
     
  17. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Dusty and Maldy will get majority of the blame
    but don’t forget Jimmy and Jeff
    and the rest of the players too.

    Jimmy deserves a lot of credit for what’s gone right (since buying) but Jimmy isn’t off limits.
    Jimmy and Jeff had a disastrous offseason. Off-season signings busted.
    Has success gone to Jimmy’s head? Or was it the “sign stealing”? Wants to be part time GM.
    (Ran off Reid Ryan to appoint his son)

    “Baseball guys” (like your advisers and manager) didn’t get you here and bring you this success. “Nerds” did.


    https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/in...on-astros-inner-turmoil-2022-world-series-run

    "Sometimes I wonder if Jim thinks he's Jerry Jones," said one Astros employee, who was among the dozen people with knowledge of the organization with whom ESPN spoke to better understand the inner workings of arguably the most successful franchise in baseball. Not since Larry MacPhail in 1947 has a championship franchise parted ways with its top baseball executive so soon after a title, but what became clear over those conversations was Crane's willingness to meddle in baseball-operations decisions, much like the Dallas Cowboys' owner who also serves as GM. It's a path certainly in Crane's purview as owner but rare among his peers in baseball -- and it suggests that Click's work always came with impediments.

    Crane, sources said, felt coming into the 2022 season that the team needed more "baseball men" involved in operations decisions and invited Hall of Famers Jeff Bagwell and Reggie Jackson into the team's weekly senior baseball-operations meetings. Crane, sources said, killed an agreed-upon deal for Chicago Cubs catcher Willson Contreras at the trade deadline. Crane, sources said, this week personally negotiated the three-year, $34.5 million contract that brought reliever Rafael Montero back to the team -- a deal that was widely seen in the industry as a hefty price to give a 32-year-old with only one good full big league season.

    It's a trend that began in February 2020, during the Astros' first press conference addressing the crisis-causing sign-stealing scandal, when Crane said he planned to be more hands-on with baseball operations. Crane had brought on Click and manager Dusty Baker after firing GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch in the wake of the scandal.

    What Crane had appreciated most about Luhnow was the conviction with which he made decisions, sources said. Crane appreciated, two sources familiar with his thinking said, the efficiency and ruthlessness of Luhnow's operation, seeing it was similar to how Crane ran his other businesses.

    Over time, Crane would learn that was not Click's style. Though Click wasn't indecisive, he did not preen about with what one person deemed Luhnow's "institutional arrogance, which Jim actually thought was an admirable thing." Going to an ALCS in his first season and a World Series in his second bought Click little goodwill, and he came into the 2022 season in the final year of his contract and with support at the ownership level withering, sources said.

    Disagreements over player evaluations furthered the chasm between the sides and further isolated Click. Baker was among those who convinced Crane to kill the trade that would have sent right-hander Jose Urquidy to the Cubs for Contreras. Bagwell, who "Jim might trust more than anyone," according to one source familiar with their relationship and corroborated by another, was critical of the Astros' player-development system, even as it was graduating eventual ALCS and World Series MVP Jeremy Peña. Jackson, who joined the Astros in May 2021 as an "executive assistant" despite never playing for the organization, yelled at members of the team's front office this year and later would apologize, according to sources.

    If Crane does fill the job -- multiple people inside the Astros believe he could decide to run the team a la Jones -- the lessons are clear: The person needs to appeal to Crane's impulses, as Luhnow did more than Click. Crane, sources said, is a demanding boss -- generally in a good way.

    "He gave us resources," one longtime Astros front-office member said, "and he expected us to do the right things with them."

    The undercurrent of Crane's desire to be involved, however, especially took root three years ago and only increased during Click's tenure. Now, he has advisers. He has a group of subordinates to execute his decisions.

    So he could hire someone to do the job. Or he could follow the path of another Texas billionaire and do it himself. For all of Arte Moreno's intrusiveness with the Angels, all of Jeffrey Loria's prying with the Miami Marlins, the last baseball owner to so assert himself was George Steinbrenner with the New York Yankees, the archetypal organizational puppeteer. Crane is not there yet, but he has come closer than most. Like Jones and Steinbrenner, his thirst for winning has taken him to places others won't go.

    Regardless of who takes over, the Click affair has proved one thing unequivocally: When it comes to who's running the Houston Astros, neither titles nor contracts matter. It is one person and one person only: Jim Crane.


    https://theathletic.com/3738094/2022/10/27/astros-owner-general-manager-contract/

    Sources familiar with the Astros’ situation who are not authorized to talk about the team’s operation cite a variety of potential reasons for the uncertainty surrounding Click: Stylistic clashes between the 44-year-old executive and the 68-year-old Crane, disagreements about the size of the baseball operations staff and concern from Click about other voices in the organization influencing the owner.

    As I wrote on Sept. 30, Crane is difficult, demanding and heavily involved in baseball operations, acting almost as an owner/GM. He said he had no knowledge of the Astros’ illegal sign stealing, and some in the organization believe he took a more active role because he did not want to get embarrassed and blind-sided again.

    It’s Crane’s team. He can run it however he wants, and in many ways he is a good owner. Players speak highly of him. He cares about winning. He shrewdly runs the Astros’ business, helping provide support for baseball operations. Even his penchant for making employees uncomfortable is not necessarily a bad thing.

    Yet the uneasy relationship between Crane and Click continues. Here, in greater detail, are the potential reasons cited by sources:

    Stylistic clashes

    Crane likes to act quickly and boldly. Click, who came from the Rays’ organization, moves more deliberately. Yet while the two might not share the same ideas on roster construction, their decisions on players seem to complement each other well.

    Crane was the driving force in the most recent contracts for Justin Verlander, Michael Brantley, Yuli Gurriel and Martín Maldonado. Click, meanwhile, built nearly the Astros’ entire bullpen, which led the majors in ERA during the regular season and has allowed three runs in 33 innings (on three solo homers) for a 0.82 ERA in the postseason.

    Staffing conflicts

    Luhnow built a powerhouse with a lean staff, and Crane loved the efficiency of the operation, as any owner would. Click has taken the Astros in the other direction, adding to the team’s front office and scouting department.

    Last offseason, Click hired two assistant GMs, Scott Powers from the Dodgers and Andrew Ball from the Angels (another assistant GM, Pete Putila, recently left to become the Giants’ general manager). He also boosted the team’s number of scouts from 27 to 38, according to Baseball America. The Astros still have one of the smallest scouting staffs in the majors, but their increase of 11 was the largest of any team from the previous year.

    Crane obviously approved all of the hires, but that doesn’t mean he liked increasing his budget for baseball operations — and Click is said to want further additions. Pivoting from Click less than a year after allowing him to expand the staff would be odd. Forcing another GM to inherit Baker (whom Crane hired shortly before Click) would be odd, too.

    Other voices

    Crane felt burned by Luhnow, and after firing him was looking for people he could trust. Special advisor Reggie Jackson and community outreach executives Jeff Bagwell and Enos Cabell helped fill that void, and remain influential with the owner.

    Click has not gained Crane’s confidence the way Luhnow once did; perhaps no GM could. Click also is not as savvy politically as the job sometimes requires, and perhaps should have made a greater effort to endear himself to Crane’s newfound inner circle. Players, though, view Click as a good, open communicator. And if Click is not the type to glad hand, Crane should have learned that before he hired him.
     
    IBTL, Kim and conquistador#11 like this.
  18. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Jeff Luhnow busy in Soccer, has a Lifetime Ban from MLB it seems like.

    Even though the Yankee Letter is still not open by the Paid off Judge by Rob Manfred and Hal Steinbrenner
     
    Stephen66 likes this.
  19. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    As God awful as we've been were still in the last playoff spot. Just fyi
     
    Radricky, DreamShook and Houstunna like this.
  20. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Jeff Luhnow busy in Soccer, has a Lifetime Ban from MLB it seems like.

    Even though the Yankee Letter is still not open by the Paid off Judge by Rib Manfred and Hal Steinbrenner
     
    Viol8r likes this.

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