The Astros' Hall of Fame & Retired Numbers are drunk

To me nothing from any single season gets someone in. It is a career, or at least 5+ season honor.

 

Yep.

 

I suppose if a guy came over and won a cy young or an mvp and immediately went on down the road that might be something that would make me reconsider, but that's not really going to happen too often, is it? The idea that Clemens or Keuchel shouldn't be in an Astros HOF is silly. We had Keuchels corner and it was rocking. He was CY for a year and really good for 2 or so more and was marked present in a couple more. Clemens had what- 3 or 4 years. a couple were dominant. There's no way he doesn't belong in.
If Moises Alou won an MVP he should be the dude too.
If Randy Johnson would have been named WS MVP I would fight anyone who said he shouldn't be in the Astros HOF. IT was an all time great heater he went on- I don't care if it was only 2 months- if it would have ended in a parade you absolutely have to put him in. Same with Carlos Beltran if he would have carried us to a WS title in 2004. LIke- those guys were so freaking transcendent that you can't tell the history of the Astros without them being involved (if those teams would have won WS). They would have been chapters in the entire book for those exploits. Instead, b/c we flamed out they are only footnotes.

 

We can simply agree to disagree on this point.

I feel a player should be on the Astros and good for at least 5 years to be considered. Just like a player must be in MLB for 10 years to be eligible for the MLB HOF.

Then consider who is deserving from those qualifyers.

To me the HOF requires greatness over a period of time, not some 1 hit wonder.

 

Nope I'll stand by assessment that your comprehension skills are $h!t.

You don't like to debate. Nope. In your mind you are ALWAYS right. Sounds like you have something in common with Dusty in that in your mind you're the smartest person in the room.

 

Bill Doran was a hell of a 2nd baseman. If it wasn't for Ryne Sandberg's bat he might have had a couple of gold gloves.

 

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Cooperstown HOF has a wing for special moments if I am not mistaken... why not have a section in Union Station commemorating top 10 moments to start with then add one more exhibit every 3 years (that doesn't necessary have to come from the previous 3 years). For example, types of events to be included would be included the Randy Johnson run, the Mike Scott no hitter, the Ausmus homer...

 

I agree that special moments and players should be celebrated and remembered. I even noted this in my posts above.

Having special moments or achievements put into the HOF wing you speak of does not make that player a HOFer. That should be the same with the Astros.

 

Not directed at Hey Now!, but his comment makes me want to caveat my earlier posts in this thread. I'm fine with a numbers format to get people in (or at least be a basis for talking points). I don't think numbers should be a way to keep people out. In other words, different people can have different views of what gets a person in. If there is a big enough contigent that wants guys with long careers that don't have the dominance of the people I consider great. I'm fine with them being in. I wouldn't call them great, but that's okay. My WAG numbers were only meant to show what I consider great. The Hall of Fame should not be about keeping people out that a certain group doesn't consider great, it should be about bringing guys in that a good contingent of Astros fans consider great. Unlike retired numbers, the Hall doesn't have a finite space (or quite as finite).

 

Good point. You could have an automatic threshold for admission like WAR (20 and up gets you in automatically) plus also have other guys let in that didn't have as long a career but were really good (like Clemens or Keuchel or something like that).

 

I would have a sliding threshold. Something like the following:
1 8 fWAR season;
2 6 fWAR seasons;
4 5 fWAR seasons; or
1 MVP or Cy Young.

Let voting decide on the rest. A player reaches these milestones, he should know he's an Astros HoF as soon as he retires.

 

Just like in Mr. 3000?

 

I like it. I wonder how many auto admits that would be?
1 8 war season- biggio, Bregman, Bagwell, Cedeno, Dierker, Scott,
2 6 war season adds altuve, Correa, Thon, Wynn, Berkman, Cruz, Oswalt, JV,
Don't have records for 4 seasons of 5 war
MVP/Cy Young- Keuchel
For pitchers I would just make 20 War the auto entry- that adds Don Wilson, Nolan Ryan, Joe Niekro and J.R. Richard to the other guys- no way you leave any of them out- right? It cuts Reynolds and Forsch which is as it should be- they want in they need to be voted in I think- it's not an auto thing.

 

I don't think we will ever be unretiring numbers. But agree thay it should only be HoFs that go in with an Astros hat. Altuve and JV I are who I would expect that be be by 2035 or so.

For the Astros HoF I love learning about the Founder of the team, and some of the first good players. I think you also have to look at it from an age perspective. A lot of those guys aren't going to be around much longer with many already passing on. It should slow down to maybe 1 or 2 accepted per year. It will also require changing how they are displayed as MMP is already pretty cramped on HoF alley.

For selections pre golden era I really think you have to look at it as who was the best position player/pitcher of this decade.

 

An Astros HoF without John Paciorek is meaningless.

 

Maybe when they finally build up the land across the street that they bought (old BUS) as an entertainment center, they'll move a store there.