ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Raptors 4/8/2022

Master class in tanking. One more to go! We can do it!!

 

KPJ is more talented than Sengun.

 

Every thread on the front page would have the name Sengun in the title

 

I think you take "floor general" as being the Chris Paul archetype of pass first high efficiency point guard and not playmaking guard type that makes sure the offense runs efficiently and makes the smart play instead of barreling into a crowd or jumping in the air and not knowing what to do.

Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holliday, Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, James Harden, Steph Curry, Luka Doncic, Trae Young, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Fred Van Vleet, Damian Lillard....

KPJ is in his third year. He has a high usage in this offense so I don't really care that he gets numbers. Does he make good plays or bad plays. Same with Green. Same with Sengun. Did he make a good play there or a bad play there. And KPJ is Christian Wood level in terms of smart decision making. The same people who argue "look at KPJs 30 points!1!" are the same ones telling you Christian Wood's 18/10 averages don't grow on trees.

 

I agree with all of this.

I also agree with people that feel KPJ has been playing great.

it’s very frustrating exhausting trying to explain to people firmly entrenched on either side why both of these things can indeed be true simultaneously.

 

No, both can’t be true simultaneously. A player can’t make a lot of bad decisions AND play great. The fact is that posters who dislike KPJ watch KPJ and not those other players listed, so they harp on any bad play made by KPJ as confirmation bias.

 

This team is a year removed from being good. KPJ should be here another year to see if he's actually progressed and is an NBA caliber player or if he's Christian Wood. I'd say that he needs to be like Jrue Holliday. 3rd option on a contending team that takes shots when necessary but defers to the real talents of the team.

I never want to see a game where he takes more shots than Green or Sengun.

 

Your last statement shows why you can’t evaluate KPJ effectively due to bias.

 

I think Jrue Holiday is a great comp for KPJ. Obviously Giannis averages more shot attempts per game than Holiday, but Holiday averages about as many shots as Middleton, and there are many games when Jrue is hot and takes a lot of shots — see their last game versus the Celtics.

To say one player should never take more shots than another is absurd.

 

You just don’t see it. You look at KPJ’s flashy plays and stats at the end of the game and say he playing point guard well.

He can indeed have a really good individual game and struggle running the offense.

 

LOL. The anti-KPJ squad is hilarious. You don’t have any special knowledge. You are sounding more and more like the anti-Green squad earlier in the season.

 

Say it with me.....

KPJ is here to stay
Houston Rockets all the way
We ain't got another day
KPJ is here to stay!


DD

 

I understand what you are saying. But I want you to tell me how he affects the offense like C Wood who monopolizes fast breaks and doesnt get Sengun and Green the ball. Since Wood has been out, all these guys are still eating(especially Green) with KPJ running point. I understand what you are saying. But I dont think we get significantly better offensively with KPJ off the floor and I dont think he freezes guys out of the offense either. But there is a way to test this

@jordnnnn Need a favor cause I am lazy, can you tell me our offensive rating when KPJ is not on the floor?

 

Special knowledge? I Come on man, leave your emotions out of this.

Nobody has posted more KPJ stats and highlights than me. Think what you want. I don’t care. I feel like you must be late to this conversation to even suggest that because I’m not anti KPJ. I’ve said he’s improving and has star talent. Glad Wood is out because it’s unlocked KPJ. Been saying they need to just turn him lose to be a scorer for months and look what happened when they did and he started putting up 21 shots per game.

Am I skeptical he can be the point guard long term? Yes and with good reason. You do realize he doesn’t have to play PG to be on the floor right?

I’ve also said that I think he can be the point guard if the pieces around him fit such as him having another player to share the responsibility with. Could be JG, could be somebody but yet on the roster.

Any critique of KPJ’s game is met with responses like this rather than objectivity. KPJ can get better. I hope you realize that.

I didn’t even say anything negative about his game yesterday because he was far and away our best player on the court.

 

Why does KPJ have to be pass-first to be a good point guard? He’s obviously more in the mold of a slashing, playmaking PG who can take some of scoring pressure off of Green. This PG play style fits well with Sengun as a point-forward.

 

I don’t think he needs to be a pass first point guard. He’d be terrible at it. So I’ve NEVER said that. A lot of people who I see saying KPJ shouldn’t be the point have never said that. There are a few who think that and I believe those are in the minority. The same people that think Jalen Green should take 30 shots per game.

He’ll never be that. In fact, trying to be a pass first point guard severely limits him. That’s why he looked like a bum for half the season and appeared to be closer to being out of the league entirely than he was to being a starting caliber player. His best attribute is scoring, you clip his wings when you take that away from him.

The problem with KPJ as your sole facilitator is although he is a good passer, he’s not a natural at the position and misses guys and has tunnel vision. He struggles playing with pace. He doesn’t always make the basic simple plays or do the little nuanced things guys do that have played the position all their lives. Is it because it’s new to him or does he just not have that? We don’t really know yet. Some of that is instinctual so you either have it to tap into or you don’t.

Like I said, it can work with him If the right pieces are in place around him unless he takes another jump which is possible. He’s 21, basically 22 years old in a few days.

 

As compared to whom? DJ Augustine, Nix, Schroder? Schroder would be the only one worth comparing stats with.

KPJ is clearly the best option to play PG on this roster. That’s really not in question. That’s why it’s been his job all season. Those other guys aren’t as good as him.

 

Hmm, I guess that's true. I donno.

I guess I can go to PBP stats page and see what the guys TS% are when he's on the court, that might help. Im not really used to it though.

For what its worth, Im still cool with getting Ivey if he's the best player on the board. If he's better than thats it.

 

Anyone want club tickets for tomorrow hawks game? 2 seats Section 106 row 19, working tomorrow won’t make it. Have on AXS can transfer let me know what your willing to pay. Will give a clutch fans discount

 

I just want to say that KPJ is balling. Let’s not let that get lost in the argument. He’s been playing like an All Star.

I can’t wait for the draft lottery so we can see where we are. I’ve been watching videos all morning of guys I haven’t look at much.