Liberals favored global intervention during Clinton. They showered roses for Bosnia and even Haiti, which turned into a shitshow but no one cared because there wasn't a scary dude to scare American children as a bedtime story. Haiti became worse than Puerto Rico but we collectively treated it all the same. The political shift afterwards came with the next Bish. Pro-Israel neocons had been wanting to invade Iran pre-9/11 but the idea didn't take root until then. Afghanistan was bipartisan but the obvious shocker was when Congress approved invading Iraq. You still had Dems believing the old ideology of carrying that big stick, then speaking softly when everything goes to ****. So interventionism was a bleeding heart liberal thing until the body bags mounted and the scumbags we toppled were replaced by shady dudes who probably owned at least 2-3 torture chambers. Liberals looked inward and decided those trillions were better off at home while neocons still pushed war in hopes of one day overthrowing Iran. Cons like feeling tough and in charge, so they put up the Bolton types, scrub their memory of the Bush shitstains, and pretend they had the guts to know more about keeping the world safe. Trump comes along and changes the narrative further realizing no American wants a trillions dollar war when the existing wars will cost us a few more trillions without much gain or profit. This is not a distinctly drawn partisan issue. Even the notion that foreign policy should be questioned by partisans in Congress is relatively new.
I think Bolton is and was a clown. The only difference is that he was part of the same circus. Trump showed that he was far and way in his own circus of ineptitude, ignorance, greed, and a President that was easy to be manipulated by foreign leaders who were at best, barely-sufficient. It isn't that anyone from the left believes Bolton turned into a soothsayer, truth purveyor, legitimate player. It is that him pointing out that Trump was easily handled and manipulated by Putin and other foreign leaders just highlights how bad Trump was. How he was horrible at negotiations and a failure as both a human being and a President. He was way worse regarding Russia than either Obama or Biden has been and it isn't even close.
Reagan did some good things but he also make some big mistakes. If you look at presidents from an unbiased nonpartisan eye you wouldn't say any president was great but see the good things they did and the mistakes the also made. There is no great presidents really. But there are really bad ones - and Trump owns that all to himself. For whatever criticisms I have of Reagan, Bush I and Bush II - I can confidently say they cared about their country and saw themselves as the leader of all Americans. That's not true with Trump. And yes as @rocketsjudoka was saying, none of what we write here matters - we're just a bunch of old men now arguing politics and nothing we say is going to shape the world. Which makes the **** bombers who come here like @Commodore @MojoMan @Trader_Jorge all the more amusing and betrays their real agenda - to troll. I would be really nice to have a conservative voice that actually one could debate with - one that could address points that people make instead of ignoring them and just going on personal attacks. I'd welcome that debate but so far doesn't seem there is anyone ready to step up.
Yes, That happened under Obama and Biden. Correct. Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who withdrew from two separate treaties exactly as Putin wanted? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who wanted to weaken and end NATO exactly as Putin wanted? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who gave classified intel from our allies to Russia? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who ordered our CIA to share more intel with Russia? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who congratulated Putin on his fraudulent election? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who said that Crimea belonged to Russia and stated that it was smart and the Ukrainians there were happy about it? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who tried to blackmail the Ukrainian leadership to go after Trump's American political rivals? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who made numerous efforts to legitimize Putin as a leader including lobbying for him to join the G7, taking his word over intel from the United States, and refusing to acknowledge Putin as a murderer? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who worked to prevent more sanctions, called the ones that he couldn't veto horrible, and cut back on those overseeing the sanctions? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who supported Russian-friendly, authoritarian political candidates in other countries in Europe? Was it Trump, Biden, or Obama who hired someone who was arrested and convicted in part for not paying taxes on money he made working for the corrupt anti-Democratic leader of Ukraine prior to Zelensky? The answer to all of those questions isn't Obama or Biden. Obama could have and should have given more arms to Ukraine as well and even additional sanctions. Biden could agree to send in our military and try to work with our allies (whom Trump disparaged and was unable to work with) to establish a no-fly Zone. Nothing they didn't do comes close to matching the long list of Putin-benefitting policies and positions from the Trump administration. For somebody who doesn't like Trump, you are very reticent to criticize is Putin and Russia friendly administration. You twist in knots trying to avoid it, and use deflection when it's brought up.
True Liberals have been very pro-intervention before. That's why I mentioned Neo-Wilsonian and the Neocon view of things was Wilsonian just adapted to a Reaganite view of the World. My point was though that we are seeing a difference of opinion on the "Left" rather than this characterization of everyone who was anti Trump just moving in lockstep.
I would also point out that on this issue and really most issues on here between supposed liberal group think sheep, there can be disagreements or discussions while there is still respect. When there is disagreements there is still positive and constructive dialogue.
Have to catch myself from looking at the newsfeed of this war like it’s Game of Thrones. I shouldn’t be hoping Ramzan Kadyrov’s personal story arc somehow ends like Ramsay Bolton’s...
You can check the one you refeneced before or Google United States treaties with Russia, or any of the things I mentioned. Which of the parts of that post are you unaware? The post you were kind enough to supply earlier links corroborative links in it as well. None of them are tweets by Andy Ngo referencing a website where he's the editor.
Intervention has been an American thing across both parties post WW2. Vietnam was a bleeding heart liberal thing? Iraq/Kuwait? Latin America under Reagan? Maybe I am misunderstanding your point about bleeding heart liberals. If anything, Bosnia was just a continuation of the Bush Sr post USSR foreign policy. Trump is just a populist. He had no problem assassinating an Iranian general or vetoing Congress about not supporting the Saudi Yemen war.
