Ukraine

I don't care about Neville Chamberlin hoping that Hitler will be contained.

Ukraine wasn't part of NATO, and they got rid of their nukes which has come back to haunt them.

What's happening to Ukraine is a tragedy just as what happened to other former Soviet Republics, to Syrians, Afghanis, etc. We left the Afghans to defend for themselves against the Taliban and former officials are being arrested and executed along with their families. Why don't we care about the Afghans anymore?

I don't get it - we pulled out of Afghanistan just to go into Ukraine? This makes no sense. If we can't beat the Taliban why are we supposed to beat the Russians?

You draw your line in the sand, that line is NATO. Maybe you can make Finland and Sweden part of that line. But Ukraine was never in that line and that's all there is to it.

 

What were they going to do with Soviet nukes? I guess they could have taken them apart and made dirty bombs.

 

We beat the Taliban - they were crushed, what we couldn't do was make them want to fight for their own country. Do you think the Ukraine would be the same? I mean their people are clearly fighting for their country.

The Afgani people have been oppressed for centuries, they don't know what freedom looks like or tastes like and therefore are not willing to fight for it.....as they will go back to what they know.

The Ukranians are different as are the Russians and their IPhones, facebook accounts, Tick Tok and instagram accounts......once people taste freedom they don't want to let it go.

Now is the time to strike against Russia - he is weak, look at where he is sitting at his own table, everything about him is showing weakness, all his actions, arresting protestors, putting in new laws, shutting down media - he is losing - and losing badly.......his only threat is to suck his thumb and say...NUKES...NUKES......

Hopefully the USA has profiles on what would happen if he orders a Nuke strike and believes it will not actually happen.......but at this point, I think it is time to stand up for the bully - sure give sanctions a chance, but the Ukranian people need our help, they deserve our help....and more than just thoughts and prayers.....

We are united with NATO - it is time to press that advantage.

DD

 

So they don't want the official US position to be Putin is a War Criminal - don't poke the bear......any more than we already are....

DD

 

I'm seeing a lot of people pressing for us to militarily confront Putin. I'm seeing a lot of people saying that we will have to confront him eventually so might as well do it sooner rather than later.

We very well might but we shouldn't rush into war.

We just got out of a war that we've been fighting for 20 years now. I have family in college who until a few months ago hadn't known a time that US troops weren't fighting in a foreign land. I don't know how many here are or were soldiers or who saw combat. I've not been but there is a reason why so many of our veterans are suffering PTSD so bad they are taking their lives. That's from fighting people who didn't have air power, armor or really even artillery. Are we going to ask another generation of not just Americans but others from many other countries to go and fight another war and one that could possibly be the last war that our civilization fights?

This doesn't mean we avoid war at all cost or we just let Putin doing whatever he wants. We do have a very bright line and it is very possible that bright line might be crossed and we have no choice. The bright line of NATO though isn't an arbitrary line and isn't one that was haphazardly drawn or drawn with little thought. NATO operates by consensus and that is why Ukraine isn't in NATO. It is where not just the US but all of the countries at NATO have decided to make our stand. I don't know if Putin will test that line and we should be prepared to if he does. In the meantime we shouldn't be doing more to invite him to cross that line.

If we step in to enforce a no-fly zone by nature an air campaign is hard to restrict to just one country. When bases, radars, and SAM batteries are based in other countries. There will be a very strong temptation on either side to take out those facilities and / or to pursue planes flying at Mach speeds to on the other side of borders. Stuff like this happened in Syria across the Turkish border. Also given that the Russians, Russian backed separatists and the US have accidently shot down civilian air planes along with bombed civilians there is a very strong possibility of a horrific accident regarding civilians on one side of the other that could lead to even greater escalation.

I will say again there is no such thing as a clean or a precise war. Once we go in even with just air power it will be very hard to just keep the conflict to that.

We already don't know what will come out of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. If we go into Ukraine militarily we will not know where or how that will end.

 

See that's just it... Like you said the invasion excuse was non-sense and I feel the same thing about the NATO hearsay...

Ukraine has been begging to be a part of NATO and it's NATO who has refused them or ignored them... Now it's Putin wants to keep Ukraine out of NATO... How s he going to keep them out of something where they can't get in....

Now NATO is saying this is a disgrace and I totally agree with the Lady from Germany... If NATO is so disgraced why didn't they accept Ukraine invite...

So yeah... This just doesn't feel right...

T_Man

 

About the table thing. I read somewhere Putin is very afraid of COVID and he has been doing this since it started.

 

You know, I don't think Putin's aim is regime change, I think it is a land bridge to Crimea - look at his forces and where the attacks are - he is way more focused in the South, I think the North is a feint.....or like a HOPE to do, while the South is his main objective.

And, when he procures it, he will give up the North in talks but wants that connection to Crimea from the South...

DD

 

Were there also Luhansk and Donezk......

 

Zelenskyy sounded like he is getting desperate today really the first time you could see his confidence waning.

 

They could have kept 20 ICBM's as well as the heavy bombers. They had 1/3 of the Soviet arsenal - thousands of warheads. They had the means to maintain them.

 

That would be funny.

 

We beat the Taliban? Beat them back maybe.

I am not buying what you are selling. The Chechens fought hard for their homeland and were brutally bulldozed by Russia. Why didn't anyone cry about this then? Why were we clamoring to get involved then?

What makes Ukraine so special that we have to jump in and risk WWIII otherwise we are "appeasing Hitler"

This isn't a game. Nukes or no Nukes, you are talking about putting American lives at risk as well as many more European civilians lives at risk to ensure Ukraine has a democratic gov't. Is it really worth it? In my eyes, the answer is no.

 

"The Imaginative Conservative" is my favorite.

 

Have to agree with you on what you stated...

We didn't beat the Taliban and neither did Russia...

T_Man

 

Why would you make an exception for Finland or Sweden? Why not let them fend for themselves too if NATO is the bright line? What makes them different from Ukraine?

 

so was hitler

 

Very sad. He is powerless to stop Russia, despite its blunders, from annihilating Ukraine and turning it into Syria. The EU (and NATO) are deliberately not supplying the necessary forces to mop up the invaders due to the real risk of nuclear war. If he ends up surrendering and being executed, it’s most likely due to the horrors around him and not a fault of his own.

If Ukraine survives this invasion, it will be a testament to their courage and tenacity.