To say everybody that is inpatient is in some highly susceptible group like if they are all immuno compromised is just another exaggeration. The largest in patient ward is med/surg - are all those hip and knee surgery patient immunocompromised as well? Were these same patients not susceptible for the past year and a half that they were being treated by unvaccinated nurses? But all of a sudden these same nurses are now posing a severe risk to same patients (many of which have the option of getting the vaccine if they wanted). You even admitted to treating patients yourself without PPE and definitely without the vaccine for a long period. So were you objectively stupider back then as well? After all you were posing the same risk that current unvaccinated staff pose to patients. As to why people don't want the vaccine, some may have religious reasons, some may be pregnant (or even trying to get pregnant) and not want to put their baby at risk, some may be asymptomatic or non-severe and don't see the benefit of getting it, some may prefer not to be hooked on a vaccine that requires periodic booster shots, and some may simply be cynical of a vaccine whose development was rushed and everyone involved is free from liability of the consequences. Whatever their reasons, it is their choice and being unvaccinated does not mean they can not still contribute to the care of relevant patients (e.g. healthy and vaccinated) When a nurse dies after getting the vaccine, will you tell their loved ones that they should be consoled cos he/she wasn't a 'dumbass' in your opinion? When a patient dies cos of a shortage of nurses, will you tell their loved ones that they could have been saved by a 'dumbass' nurse but you felt it was better for them to die cos it's more important to you to kick out those 'dumbass' nurses. If you want improved outcomes for patients, worsening the already severe and terrible nursing shortage is not going to do that
Did you seriously just ask me if I was stupid treating patients with limited PPE. Yea man…I was jumping for joy at the thought of it, you know what point I was making. Were healthcare providers putting their patients at an increased risk by doing so? Absolutely. the thing is that there was no alternative and you weigh the risks and benefits of doing so, sometimes at a detriment to yourself. To your point about people dying, the ones that care..same doctors that saw patients with limited PPE ...will check vitals, pass meds etc if they have to instead of the RN. It’s less work than putting their lives at risk. Your entitlement on some end of world scenario where if we don’t compromise patient care for some idiots is once again a fantasy. You’ve never placed orders/dictated someone’s care so I’m not not going to debate with you anymore, you don’t get it man. Good luck and I hope you and your loved ones stay safe (sincerely mean it)
And your assumption is that only those that are hospitalized with covid are infected. In reality, there are many asymptomatic patients that come for non-covid treatment and expose both nurses and other patients to infections. So, no you don't have to be working a covid floor to be exposed and infected. In fact, those working covid floors are usually better equipped and prepared to protect themselves. I am aware of a case of a nurse working in two hospitals, who was floated to a covid floor at one of the locations and came to the locations and infected multiple patients and staff, with one of them being hospitalized. I respect those people for continuing to provide care after their quarantine.
It's you that don't get it that patients will be worse of with reduced staffing vs having unvaccinated staff in more limited role or do you think those expecting mothers affected those nurses quitting are better off? Do you think their current plight is worth it for your emotional satisfaction? You are too focused on trying to 'punish' the unvaccinated that you lose sight of the higher objective which is the well being of the patients. When those unvaccinated are forced out of the system, those left behind will only be more overworked and stressed out, likely causing more to burn out and leave the profession causing an avalanche effect. My advice to you is to get off your high horse and remove your head from your arse, and hopefully you will be able to see what truly matters.
She was NOT vaccinated. I got this from another article. She would have had a much higher chance of survival if she was vaccinated. The children dont need your prayers. They needed their parents. I will always pick science over folks that have their own theories.
LOL right buddy, you're thinking about the well being of patients here. This has to be the ironic statement of the year. I would think that individuals that actually dictate patient care are more aware of this than someone that doesn't. And guess what people that run your ICUs, run the hospital, put the orders in, do the surgeries on the people you keep an eye on say? If they had to you don't think they could check their own vitals, start their own IVs, pass their own meds? I think doing so is better than having someone like you stand in and be dangerous for the patients they sign their name to. Imagine having a loved one, 60 or older as they usually are inpatient--go in for something mild only to end up intubated after some uninformed healthcare worker gives them COVID. It really sickens me to see this level of selfishness that really isn't present amongst any other group and shameful use of a strawman in "punishing people." I pray that not only you and your loved ones remain healthy, but the people you are exposing yourself /passing misinformation to. We've had enough deaths from people believing this was a hoax, to the vaccine being bad etc. It really is so irresponsible, I'm disappointed in you fellow CFer
Covid virus can transmit through aerosols that may stay in an area for hours. There are breakthrough infections. If the idea is to separate unvaccinated vs vaccinated staff, you also need physical isolation of some sort (like a separate building or air circulation system). Then you also have the issue of staff shortage - can you get enough unvaccinated staff to run a facility? Can you get enough vaccinated staff to work with unvaccinated staff? Are patients, like pregnant women in the single example here, willing to be cared for by unvaccinated staff? What kind of lawsuits are health care providers willing to face for knowingly set up facilities with unvaccinated staff?
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...tims-and-spread-covid-lies-has-died-of-covid/ Another one bites the dust. Darwinism 101. DD
People have been cared for by unvaccinated staff since the pandemic started, and I haven't heard of a single patient refusing treatment cos the healthcare provider was unvaccinated. Also the use of PPE and other processes to limit spread will still be in place and many patients have also been vaccinated. The whole issue of the pandemic and subsequent vaccine mandates have been overly politicized and polarized. I know many people that have been vaccinated and others that are not - each convinced of their choice. I try not to condemn anyone for theirs. A nurse in her 40s who recently got married and has been trying conceive for a while got the vaccine very early. When she subsequently missed her period, she was initially very happy thinking that she had conceived only for reality to be otherwise. She went on to miss her period for the next 5 months. Her husband is frequently out of the country and they have very few opportunities to try with, two of such windows falling within that time frame. She was so upset over it, blaming herself for getting the vaccine, that she recently quit. But according to some, what does her pain count for and she should be happy she took one for the team? Like I said earlier, the risk posed by unvaccinated staff is being blown out of proportion imo, but the worsening of staffing shortage presents a clear and present danger.
Another antivax liberal radio host dies of COVID https://news.yahoo.com/conservative-radio-hosts-anti-vaccine-die-from-covid-184420178.html
I'm responding to your proposal of having what is essentially two systems. You are suggesting we have two systems - one for vaccinated and one for non-vaccinated. I brought up the problems with it. As for patients not refusing, that is when there is only one system and for a long time, when there weren't vaccines. With two systems, they would know unless it's hidden from them, which probably qualify as knowingly risking patients without informing and a lawsuit waiting to happen. A better approach might be to separate covid and non-covid from the very start of admission. Unvaccinated can only work with covid patients. There is increased risk to unvaccinated health care workers, but that's their choice while there is little to no new risks to covid patients. With that said, my position is health care workers should be vaccinated. I don't think enough of them will quit to change the problem of shortages that much. In fact, general vaccine mandates will drive down covid hospital admission and improve retention.
I'm not immunocompromised or anything, but I don't want the care of an unvaccinated nurse. With my own vaccine, PPE, etc, I'd probably be safe, but the vaccine is a litmus test on the general medical competence of the nurse. I had surgery a couple months ago and could have picked from a few hospitals. I did it at Methodist because they were going to be the first requiring everyone to be vaccinated. I want the confidence that the hospital doesn't tolerate any compromises of my care. I had the luxury to be choosy because I could just continue to tolerate the pain, and not everyone gets to make a choice. I'm concerned about nurse shortages, but I don't think you start compromising on minimum standards because of it. If we're compromising, may as well be flexible on nursing degrees and certifications. No, you need standards, and vaccination is in the standard. Increase the pay, increase the perks, expand the pipeline, give more special visas to immigrants, do whatever to get the people, but don't compromise on the requirements.
Nobody will study it, but there’s a reason you aren’t seeing any stories out there about physicians or physician assistants (PAs). It’s predominantly a single cohort of people —a lot of them that suffer from “don’t know that they don’t know” syndrome
When a anti-vax person says they are a nurse as a argument from authority I'll just respond with "oh so you are a expert in the science behind vaccines and viruses" because nurses aren't and a nurse claiming that they are experts because of their nursing education scare me because that means they didn't pay attention to in their schooling to know they aren't subject matter experts in vaccines and the science behind it. I wonder if this is mostly older nurses because I know nursing has become a mores elective profession as time moves forward due to how much more selective and difficult nursing school is compared to decades ago. Therefore the profession is going to capture a larger percentage of people who are more intelligent and self-aware of their limitations. So I'm assuming younger nurses are less prone to anti-vax conspiracies.
These weird anecdotes mirror the anecdotes from the original anti-vax story several decades ago. Doctor with $$$ agenda asks parents if they thought the vaccine caused autism. Parents, with no other reason to blame, said "You know what? I indeed saw junior starting to become "less lively" after that measles shot! I mean it was five years ago, but now I've confirmed it as clear as day that things indeed went downhill after that poke!" You don't even need headlines anymore. Just become a rube FB follower without any sense of reason nor personal desire for research. Just watch this 10 minute expose, and it'll all c*m clearer!! Like and repost or Big Pharma gets away with it all!
