I was not trying to say what was going on in your mind I thought you were saying what my premise was. I think we are talking past each other and not that far apart on what we actually think. Bottom line a huge ego can be a detriment and a blessing.
But is he smart? I don't know if he is but you seem to ignore that part and just go with the work ethic. 80% of everybody drafted put in the work.
Jalen Green vs Evan Mobley!!! The BATTLE FOR #1 Was An Absolute SHOW!! - YouTube Mobley doesn't look that good. Look at our boy Irish Spring Green give 5 future NBA players the bizness. Can you name at least one of Green's teammates?
Do you honestly not think, superstar or not, Jalen Green is not going to be the Rockets best player? I'm a Mobley guy but even I recognize that is 99% likely the case. So yes, you can bet the Rockets will be building around Green if he is the pick. Also, can you recall a situation where two 20 year old ball dominant guards sublimated their games? It's one thing when MVP Lebron or Harden diets that for another hall of famer but at the beginning of their career? It doesn't sound like Green is wired like that atm and KPJ is not known for being meek or mild tempered. If the Rockets were to get a chance at another offensively leaning wing next year in the draft, would this situation not be a consideration in your mind?
what separates the true elites that u build around from the talented guys that just put up numbers is that their impact and advanced stats go beyond their basic statlines Beal averaged 30, 4, and 6 in 19-20, and his team was 20-37 in the games he played in…he averaged 31, 5, and 4 this year, and his team was 17-32 at 1 point Lavine averaged 27, 5, and 5, and his team went 26-32 in the games he played in…the year before 26, 5, and 4, and his team went 20-40 with him in the lineup then u have guys like Harden who average 25, 5, and 6 and take a young, sorry Rockets team to 45 wins and the 8th seed…or 27, 6, and 7 and take a very injured team to 56 wins and the WCF CP3 averaged 18, 5, and 7 with OKC, but his impact went far beyond that statline…he averaged 16, 5, and 9 this year and was in the MVP race guards and wings are running this league, but my hope is that Jalen Green does not fall into the Beal/Lavine group of player when it’s all said and done
I have no problem and encourage viewing stats with 100% context. Meaningless stats are meaningless. But I also think viewing W/L impact without context is dumb too. CP3 is a great example of this. OMG!! He took the OKC Thunder to the playoffs! Yeah he same team who had two players that were VERY key to taking the Clippers to the playoffs the prior year and also had Adam’s and Schroeder. OMG!! The Suns are in the Finals and may win a ring!!! Each the same team that was amazing at the end of 19/20 and was solid all fo 19/20 when Ayton played and also added Cam Payne and Crowder while also getting massive improvements from the young guys. OF COURSE CP3s impact goes beyond stats. but conversely… we’re Bookers stats all “empty” the last few years?? When he averaged more points and assists and higher PER and VORP? Is he a better player now that they’re winning and he’s going to set the record for most points ever in your first playoffs? fact is… teams win. Teams with multiple great players. the Rockets aren’t close to that yet. Pick BPA and keep working on roster construction from there.
Yeah I hope Green ends up being a top 30-40 or better player all time as well. Because I mean that’s what Paul and Harden are some the very best players of all time in the league statistically. So yeah let’s hope for that lol
So that’s what u got from my post? Really? My point is that some guys put up crazy numbers, and the impact and advanced stats don’t match it. Was 12-13 Harden an all-time great player at that point? No, but he could still manage to drag scrubs to the playoffs with his 26 ppg. Meanwhile, Beal averages 30 and his team is consistently way below .500. Jimmy Butler isn’t an all-time great, and has never put up anything close to a 31, 5, and 4 statline or even Lavine’s 27, 5, and 5, yet no team led by him would ever be 17-32 or go 20-40
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jalen-green-experience/id1479101969?i=1000514490319 Admittedly these guys are just generally high on Green. But it’s a good listen. They also do episodes on Mobley and a lot of the other top guys. Good perspective. Which basically really closely mirrors mine. regarding Green, they agree with me. When actually watching the games as I I’d and redid the one the OP posted, I’m not seeing what we seeing. The on ball defense is pretty decent. The off ball defense needs work but there is effort and improvement there. There are mental lapses of course. It’s not his strength obviously but not horrendous as some make out. All the other positives are there, offensively, mind set, work ethic, etc. funnily enough as this was recorded a while back they mention Houston being a bad landing spot because Tilman is so bad. They don’t have no criticism Of Green just are really high on him. They get into Mobley a bit this episode as every episode touch a few different folks. But there’s also a Mobley specific episode which is with a listen. Again… I think clearly they lean/bias Green more so the Mobley, so on the Mobley episode it feels a little more negative especially to start but they get into plenty of positives and note, like me, they still REALLY like Mobley. They just point out some of the things like weak picks, poor rebounding, galloping as opposed to quick twitch fluidity. They love the defense, defensive potential, etc. they think any comp to AD is crazy. They’re not sure they’re even there on the Bosh comp. lots of podcasts I’ve listened to recently - and I’ve listened to a ton by various people on all prospects - are really high on Suggs. It’s made me reevaluate Suggs a bit. Like all podcast love him. They recognize he might not be 1,2, or 3 but I think so many people just see that there’s so little risk with him that it’s a great pick. And I ally these guys in particular are crazy high on Cade. Again, mirroring my perspective. Basically viewing Cades upside as a combo of Luka and Tatum… which is exactly as I see him long run. They love… as do I… how clutch Cade was this year. Led the NCAA in clutch points by a massive margin … like almost double the second place guy. I concur with their conclusions this year at least. Apparently they weren’t high in Melo last year… and granted I didn’t put a lot of research into last year since it didn’t matter for the Rockets (like I had zero opinion on Patrick Williams or Okoro except that I wouldn’t have been too jazzed if I was the Rockets and had a shorty season and ended up with one of them)… but Melo was the only guy I was high on last year.
there’s absolutely truth in this. but again. There needs to be more context. Hardens 12-13 scrubs, for example, were not Wizards scrubs of last year. or switch Booker with Beal this year. Maybe the Suns aren’t where they are but I’d be in no way surprised if they were. And indeed…. A lot of that is probably because of CP3 as much as anything. But Booker (or in the hypothetical Beal) would be super important if not more important. CP3s “intangibles” after all never got him past the 2nd round as the best player in his team. as it relates to this draft the player after Cade that has that intangible to me is Suggs. I think with both Green and Mobley it’s tbd whether their games will translates to stats plus intangibles or just one or the other or ether etc.
Even if we make the mistake of drafting Green over Mobley, it's not the end of the world and the Rockets are still in a better position going forward than they would have been if Tank Commander Wall didn't do such a great job of helping the Rockets lose games. Every once in a while we need to take a step back and realize that it's pretty much win/win. Worst case scenario, Green is closer to how I see him than how some of his fans see him and he's merely a decent one way player who can be a contributor to a winning team down the line.
that 12-13 Rockets roster was still super weak, and Harden dragged it to 45 wins and the 8th seed in the WC averaging 26 and 6…yes the Wizards roster sucks, but Beal was averaging 31 and 5 and they were 15 games below .500 with the 5th worst record in the league at 1 point Probably isn’t a strong enough word. A lot of that is definitely because of CP3. I don’t think there would ever be a scenario where Booker or Beal is on the same team as CP3 and they are more important unless CP3 heavily declines. He is the by far the main reason the Suns are 1 of the top teams in the West. We also saw his impact last year in OKC as well. Put Booker or Beal on last year’s OKC team, and they are likely way below .500. CP3 never got past the 2nd round, but he was still leading his teams to 50+ wins every year, and at least had several chances to make the WCF. These guys are putting up absolutely monster numbers, yet they can’t even be just .500 in the East which isn’t a high bar.
again… full context matters. for one… I think clearly Harden is a better player than Beal lol. More impactful, obviously. Harden… offensively… is THE SYSTEM. And… to an extent Harden is EVEN BETTER when surrounded by capable but nothing amazing role players. for two… again, there are levels of suck. And the Wizards level of suck… excluding Westbrook this year, the last two years has been horrendous. You can just go down the rosters. The Wizards were horrible last year (19/20) because they were literally the worst team in the league defensively. 30th. Absolutely Beal contributed to that… but let’s not pretend like 12/13 Arden was a solid defender… yet the Rockets were mid pack defensively. They were also better offensively (6th) than the Wizards were last year (15th). And again… Harden >> Beal obviously. Hardens Ortg was higher in 12/13 than Beals either of the last two years. for three… I think you’re underestimating Booker. I think the Suns absent either Booker or CP3, replaced with an “average” nba player, are about the same team. The Suns are 12-0 in their last 12 games without CP3 including 4-0 this year including 2-0 in the playoffs. They were 3-2 without Booker this year. One of those losses was to OKC. CP3 played in both losses. Obviously small sample size yada yada. Doesn’t mean CP3 isn’t incredibly important. Just I think the CP3 19-21 redemption tour is playing a big part in this hype. Wow he makes the playoffs with the OKC Thunder!! Amazing!! Oh yeah … the prior year the same Gallinari and lesser SGA made the playoffs with a similarly meh roster. Adams>Trez. Lou = Schroeder. So that leaves Tobias Harris vs CP3. I promise you ain’t nobody saying “wow, look at that Harris!! What a leader!! Impact shows up in more ways than the stat line”. Of course not cause that’s insane. And moreover, CP3 indeed IS a better more impactful player than Tobias Harris. So yes, the Thunder didn’t only make the playoffs but with a pretty solid 5th seed… as should be expected given that…. IF, importantly, CP3 was back to form as he was (a big issue was 18/19 CP3 in actuality sucked, relatively speaking) Again this isn’t all to say some players don’t matter more to winning, especially in an intangible way that is hard to quantify. But it is to say that’s a bit overrated. Ultimately, historically, and importantly retroactively, because a lot of the narrative is driven by preseason expectations by media that is dumb (again see the OKC 19/20 season that in actuality is in no way unexpected afterwards), most of the time it’s very simple. You look at the roster and overall talent, and you get what is generally expected. again some teams and players absolutely overperform relative to “stats”, especially basic stats… but again relatively to the Rockets, take bpa and keep building the roster that way. if I’m super focused on the intangibles… I chose Jalen Suggs, of the 3 up for debate.
Initially, it gives you another outstanding pick in the draft. Then hopefully improves in the coming seasons.
Are Booker and Paul a backcourt that set fear throughout the league for their defense? Not sure anyone next to Harden was ever known as a “defensive” backcourt. I don’t think the pairing is as bad as some are making it out to be. Just my two cents. Green is the pick, let’s not over think this.
