fwiw: “Rule 10. Section II — Dribble” states “lost control of the ball”. A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of: A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring An opponent touching the ball A pass or fumble which touches his backboard, basket ring or is touched by another player.
I saw a few folx thinking the Knicks for hosed On the last play But They don't comment on how the refs allowed them To be so overly physical in the last 2 minutes Rocket River
I don’t think the defensive has to I think the relevant rule is the held ball definition: "A held ball occurs when two opponents have one or both hands firmly on the ball or when a defensive player touches the ball causing the offensive player to return to the floor with the ball in his continuous possession which would result in a traveling violation. A held ball should not be called until both players have hands so firmly on the ball that neither can gain sole possession without undue roughness. If a player is lying or sitting on the floor while in possession, he should have an opportunity to throw the ball." This is a badly written rule, but I think it means Randle did not travel if Kyrie "touche[d] the ball causing [Randle] to return to the floor with the ball in his continuous possession which would result in a traveling violation."
depends on how long the defenders hand is on the ball for it to be a jump ball if he just slaps the ball you have to let it go or it's travel
L2M report cited language of both Held Ball and Dribble rules, deciding Dribble rule was in effect here Turnover: Traveling CC (Correct Call) As Randle (NYK) jumps into the air, Irving (BKN) makes contact with the ball, but does not dislodge it and does not cause Randle to return to the floor with possession. Therefore Randle must pass or shoot before returning to the floor. Since he does return to the floor with the ball still in his possession, this is a traveling violation.
Interesting stuff, thanks for the update. The "cause to return to the floor with possession" seems pretty vague for sure. To my eyes, watching it live and on replay, it sure looked like a travel so I'm glad they interpreted it that way here.
i guess i just disagree with their interpretation. the ball moved in randle's hands and made him have to grip it again after it moved. i would say that qualifies as "causing" him to come back to the ground (as opposed to throwing up a wild shot). i've seen plenty of similar plays over the years where a swipe causes someone to bobble it in the air and they just get a jump ball when they land holding the ball. their interpretation seems to change their own precedent and make it seem like only the defender holding the ball the whole way through the shot would result in a jump ball because otherwise the offensive player could technically still fling up a shot, which is definitely not how they call it. seems weird to think that it would benefit randle more if he lost the ball (or just purposely dropped it) than here where he mostly held onto it. and let's face it, the L2M is like steve javie, if it's a grey area with the wording of a rule, they find a way to agree with the call, no matter why the initial call was made.
