Yeah you're not getting it.... Whether Harden gets traded or not... He'll get his opportunity to pick a team in FA in two seasons... And if it is a superstar teamup he'll likely win a ship.... You act like the teams he's had here are ANYWHERE CLOSE TO A superteam.. he's carried many weak rosters relative to the competition much further than most.... With often injured and in decline 2nd options needing him to be a hero during the regular seasons.... He made 2 WCF and almost beat one of the greatest teams of all-time... Stop this bullshit.
Yes, and so did Harden. He's arguably the greatest scorer at a guard position ever. The only person you can argue over him is Jordan. that's how amazing he's been offensively. Harden is an all-time great, just like Wilt, but obviously, there are levels to this and when it comes to 1st team All NBA of all time, Harden isn't making that list. Neither is Wilt. It comes to 2nd team...Harden isn't making that list, Wilt, maybe, 3rd team...yeah for both I think they would. But yeah, his numbers were insane, even the amount of assists he was getting. It could just be that Wilt's legacy diminishes as time goes on for sure though as less and less people have stories to tell of him and people forget. This was kind of happening to Jordan as people dared to debate if Kobe was better than Jordan or Lebron and then the documentary released. The thing is, take Wilt at 31, Harden at what...31(?) 32? They are in the same place at the same time in their career Wilt hadn't won at the time and was labeled a loser. The funny thing is Wilt won his first title being traded to the 6ers.
I responded to the scenario that you said and you had nothing except an irrelevant post from another thread.... Try and pay attention.
Great points. He had his moments, exactly. His style of play was abrasive for non-Houston fans -- though most reasonable Houston fans would agree that the flopping and foul-baiting was absurd at times. Houston fans despised it when teams like the Jazz used those tactics, so obviously if Harden wasn't a Rocket, most Houston fans would see Harden as how the rest of the casual NBA fans see him: gimmicky. Prolific scorer, no question. His ease at getting to the rim -- and finishing -- is remarkable and will most certainly be missed. If Houston didn't have Harden, I think most fans would accuse Harden's "patented" step-back 3 as a travel (and to be fair, it is a good amount of times). More importantly, when the spotlight was on when it mattered the most, he couldn't live up to it, and yes the competition was extraordinarily fierce, but in the end, the results are what they are. Game 7 vs. Golden State in 2018, Game 6 vs. San Antonio in 2017, and Game 6 vs. Golden State in 2019. Those were indeed his opportunities to break through, particularly in the latter two cases when Leonard and Durant were out, respectively (to his credit, he almost certainly played with a concussion in 2017). I hate to bring it up as a knock on his legacy, but one could point to 2015 Game 6 versus the Clippers -- one of the more remarkable comebacks in recent NBA history (at least until the Clippers comeback over the Warriors in 2019) and Harden was on the bench. Love the guy as a player, and Morey and D'Antoni certainly squeezed the best out of him, but unfortunately his "best" just wasn't good enough to win the whole thing. I say "best" because I genuinely feel he had another gear in him, but for one reason or another (exhaustion most likely) he really couldn't will his team to victory when it mattered the most. Settling for end-of-shot clock step-back 3's at the end of the fourth quarter shouldn't have been his "go-to" legacy move.
True enough. But if I went to the news and told them that the people I worked with weren’t good enough and I stopped engaging at work, my ass would get canned. I wouldn’t get to demand that I get swapped over to another company. My point being that applying normal standards to these players doesn’t really fit.
Yeah it's definitely a different business. Hopefully Rockets get good players and at least multiple first round picks.
That bolded though...if he never wins a chip that one and the Spurs series are going to stick out. It's what people will always use to bludgeon his legacy. People think I'm hating on Harden but I just think those moments, almost all of the ones you named, slipped right past him. I can't remember a moment in the playoffs where I was like "Yeah, Harden put the team on his back and led us there." I can think of moments when the team played well. In another thread I showed how Yao just dominated the Lakers. He did this for two games...the Lakers, the mighty Lakers, a huge underdog, and Yao came in that series and spanked em. They were lucky he broke his foot because it was looking like a sweep until he did. That was the turning moment for Yao, like something clicked for him "I can dominate, I can do this all night..." The closest I can come is the Warriors, when we first saw them in the WCF, he put his heart and soul in those two games and almost stole one, if not two, but didn't work out for him. Maybe it is exhaustion but that's what I mean is now his legacy rests on his next destination. If it doesn't work out there I think his legacy will just settle into where it's at. I think there's no superstar that needs a championship more for their legacy than Harden does right now. Giannis is young, so whatever. Lebron, Curry, Durant, the rest of his peers and those in the 'Lebron' era have theirs, well not Russ...he needs this more than any other guy in the NBA right now at his age and maybe him knowing that is what is driving his impatience to get out of here.
Wilt was considered as a potential GOAT.... He's cemented as an all-time great and has that final piece... Almost no one or at least no solid minority seriously even questions he's an all-time great. No one ever thought Harden is or could ever potentially be the GOAT.... he's an all-time great yes and I would say that, but many wouldn't consider him among the all-time greats or anywhere close to Wilt. Harden was a massive surprise that many never saw coming... If anything he's overachieved. Wilt was a letdown that was expected to do more or be the GOAT yet still was easily cemented an all-time great.
Harden is definitely a surprise but I think he could have been a GOAT. I think he could have at least been behidn Jordan had he won 2-3 rings I think he jumps over Kobe and Wade easily just with that along with his dominance. He was definitely a surprise though. I think people need to consider him an all time great. I think if you're making all-time teams and strictly going by position. Magic Jordan Lebron Timmy (There is the eternal debate of him being a 4 or 5...) Russel Stockton Kobe Bird Malone Hakeem (Okay, I know if this were a general forum it'd be a debate between Kareem and Hakeem, Hakeem did more with less though...) Curry Wade (Maybe Harden goes here...many won't though) Durant (or Dr.J) Dirk/Garnett/Charles? Kareem So Harden is definitely a top 20 player all time, I don't think people would argue that if they think about it? 4th best SG because no one will put him over Wade because of championships although his numbers are just...much much better than Wade. I feel like he's better than wade. People have no issue putting Malone and Stockton high on lists despite not winning because of their numbers so I feel Harden should get that respect. I guess it's just whether people think top 25 all time player is something to brag about. The good thing for Harden is he's 31. Plenty of guys didn't win anything until they hit their 30s.
That's kinda crazy... When could Harden have ever conceivably won to place himself among the GOAT status? At best he could've won maybe two if he put up some Herculean efforts in the offs, but that still wouldn't have him near MJ, he'd be behind LeBron for most, behind multiple other legends including Hakeem.... Most people do there all-time great lists overall and not by a specific position.... I'd wager most people have Kawhi over him all-time lol although I'd disagree... Many probably have AD also which is laughable. My point isn't our respective lists... The general public isn't putting Harden anywhere near top 20 all-time without a championship... He was never in a position for GOAT
Pls stop. He has improved on D but he wasn't a 2 way player for a longer period. I would have wanted to see his arse against the Bad B Pistons though in that era. He would have been beaten up. Amber Heard would have punched him in the face for being mentally weak in some playoff games.
But look at his team. It's him and a bunch of average joes! Don't you feel bad!?!?!?!? It's not his fault. I wouldn't try either!!!!!!!11!!!!
lol tmac didn't run back to play defense i'm not saying harden is sucking on purpose, but he's not playing well
man, i really really didn't want to put Harden in the same boat as Tmac but they are Gilligan and Skipper
He is playing like trash because he doesn’t want to be here. What a baby be a man, he is 31 years old and still acting like 21. Oh wait he even said that guess he doesn’t just feel like 21 he acts like one and thinks like one too. Oh well Sit him on the bench. The team at least was fun when Harden was sitting. Every time he is resting the team gives at least some energy. We go down from the start of games and the bench has to pull us up and Harden goes back to give easy layups and 3s from everyone he “defends”
