As promised here are my responses, the questions: 1) Why is it ok to let ILLEGALS have a driver's license and not have to show any proof but us Americans have to show 3 forms of ID and your firstborn? Answer: I don't have kids so if we have to show a firstborn I guess I'm screwed when I renew my license. Seriously though this is about public safety. I've heard you complain about "illegals" in Stacy, MN so they are there and they are going to drive. Immigration enforcement isn't a state enforcement issue so if they are here let's at least make sure they are driving safely. i think you as a firefighter would appreciate that. That's why several states including Texas are considering it. Just because someone has a drivers license doesn't mean they can't be deported. 2) Why are they wanting to Give ILLEGALS everything and our VETERANS are going without or getting the bare minimum? Answer: What do you mean by everything? I'm not aware of "illegals" getting things like access to the VA or the GI Bill. 3) Why do I pay insurance premiums and deductibles but they want to give Illegals FREE Health care? Answer: First the argument put forward by several of the Democratic candidates is that everyone gets health care. In that case you wouldn't be paying deductibles either under their plan. For the record I don't agree with the position that undocumented immigrants should automatically qualify for any future national US Health Care system. Under our current system though everyone, including "illegals" get emergency healthcare. That isn't because of liberal laws that is the Hippocratic oath requires doctors to treat anyone if there is a life is in danger. As an emergency responder yourself you should understand that too because I don't think when you show up at a car wreck you check the people's immigration status before rescuing them. 4) Why is it ok to kill babies up to the day of birth but if a criminal kills a pregnant woman he gets 2 counts of MURDER? Answer: I'm not aware of any laws in the US that currently allow an abortion up to the day of birth on demand. My understanding is that such laws have to do with the health and safety of the mother. In that case are we going to make the decision that even if the pregnancy might kill the mother she and her doctors have to let it proceed? If you can cite a law that allows an abortion up to the day of birth for any reason I would like to see it. 5) Why are we having to deal with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS when the keyword is ILLEGAL? Doesn’t that mean NOT LEGAL? Answer: Who has to deal with them? Again immigration law under the Constitution is not a state or local issue but one that is under the federal government. If states are allowing them to get driver's licences and hospitals medical services that is their business but doesn't change that those people could be deported. If you're talking about Sanctuary Cities I am personally very uneasy about the idea of sanctuary cities but as noted it isn't a city's duty to enforce immigration law. If you're just talking about yourself well you don't have to deal with anyone. You can go become a hermit. 6) Why are you hating a president that is KEEPING his promises? Answer: Last I checked Mexico isn't paying for the wall. We don't have the greatest healthcare of all. Our GDP isn't over 4%. We aren't more respected in the World. We still have troops in the Middle East.. 7) Why are the Dems and Hollywood MAD that Trump killed TERRORIST? Answer: I can' speak for all Democrats and will certainly not speak for Hollywood. I agreed that Soleimani was a dangerous enemy and was responsible for the deaths of many Americans. Taking him out though with no preparation and warning to our allies even to many of the commanders on the ground wasn't the way to do it. We frankly lucked out that Iran shot down a civilian airliner otherwise most likely their response would've been greater. That said they hit a US base and even though the Administration lied about we know they inflicted some severe injuries to US troops.For that matter Iran has showed they are patient and work through a lot of other means.This doesn't make us safer or lead to us getting our troops out of the Middle East anytime sooner. 8) Why are we letting Non-Americans be in our government offices? Do you think you could do that in their country? NO Answer: What do you mean into our government offices? Are you saying that a non-citizen shouldn't even be allowed into the Hennepin County Civic Center if they are paying off a parking ticket? For that matter having spent time in other countries I've been in government offices in several countries and none of them seemed to consider it a threat of national security that a foreigner was in their offices. 9) Why does the media lie about actual facts of unemployment, minority work statistics being better and people being off welfare a bad thing when they are off because they are working? Isn’t that a positive? Answer: Can you cite specific sources where they are lying? Heck I've watch MSNBC now and then and even they are reporting low unemployment numbers. 10) Why are people wanting Trump gone and saying they have to save this country when the economy is better than ever, stock markets are at an all-time high and trade deals are being made that will help us all? Answer: I've told you before I am doing financially very well, what's interesting is that you've mentioned you aren't doing that well. As I said isn't it interesting that a Trump opponent living in the most anti-Trump part of the state is doing much better than Trump supporters living in the most pro-Trump part of the state. To quote Matthew 16:26 "What shall it profit a man who gains the World yet loses his soul" I can acknowledge that overall the country is doing well. I can acknowledge that I am doing well. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people who aren't doing well including people who make up Trump's base. At the same time I do fully believe we are in a battle for the soul of this country. We are in a battle to decide if the Founder's vision of separation of powers and checks and balances will persist or else we become something more akin to what we see in countries like Turkey. I understand that many Republicans love what Trump is doing because he's a Republican (he actually isn't) but would you accept doing end runs around Congress, appointing an attorney general willing to bend the law to his will if a Democrat? No and rightfully not. In the case of Fast and Furious when Holder refused to testify in Congress he was rightfully held in contempt. What we see now from Trump is arguments of blanket refusal to testify. That should not be acceptable from either the an Administration of any party. Nor should a President profiteering of his office and I've showed you several times how Trump is. Also regarding those trade deals. Consider that USMCA is substantially no different than NAFTA and is even more similar to the TPP agreement that Trump campaigned against. Why do you think two politicians you hate, Amy Klobuchar and Nancy Pelosi strongly supported it. The Phase one trade deal with China isn't a victory. It's a truce. All it does really is move most of the tarriffs back to where they were before the trade war. The amount of agricultural good China is promising to buy isn't much different from what they were buying before. That might come too late for many Minnesota Soybean farmers and pork producers who have taken a huge hit the last two years. For that matter Coronavirus actually gives the Chinese an excuse to buy less as it's causing their economy to shrink and they can argue they can't afford to buy more imports. We haven't lost the trade war but we have been losing. The Trade Deficit with China actually INCREASED under Trump. That should tell you how good of a job his trade deals were.
Actually, it is that simple. And you struggling with it suggests you see the things I mean about trump. So if its tax cuts, abortion, Supreme Court justices, or illegal immigration... ask yourself if what trump does is the only or best way to get those, or if they are worth the cost of trump (and no, not just cost of a growing deficit, which to me is only a small part). Whether in ten or twenty years when people ask you about these times, and who you voted for... what will you say. Me or anyone else writing what's wrong with "the wall" won't help you answer those questions.
Save your bandwith. People will rationalize anything to avoid admitting they ****ed up or that their preferred politician isn't infallible. Look at the pretzels our party did with Obama during his administration.
You have a lot of patience and humility. I would be shocked if you got him to change his mind at all though.
Ok...reading the questions again and seeing your answers kind of highlights that his questions are bullsh!t. At least they way they are phrased. Your answers are certainly sufficient to continue a healthy discussion. His response to your questions will tell you all you need to know about his sincerity. Then again, to your previous point, there are people, especially on FB who see things as black and white as these questions. On both sides. I was chuckling when I was reading your responses because I could hear my step-mother's voice asking the questions. Her and Dad got political all of a sudden when they discovered FB. I'm not sure if Dad has ever voted. He's 78. About two years ago, about the same time he retired, he started posting political **** on FB. They are your stereotypical True Trumpers.
Great reply. I fear that the use of facts and lack of emotionally charged catch phrases might make getting a response more in depth than 'fake news' difficult.
For those wondering I posted his questions verbatim. Also looking at his original FB posts it looks like he might not have written them but he copied them from someone else. I already know what his response will be because I've gone back and forth with him before. He will say "thank you" and then do something whataboutism and say they're all bad. " I posted his questions and responded to him not to win him over but as part of trying to understand the other side. If I get any detailed response from him I will post it here.
Yes, I've heard similar responses from Trump supporters as well. My question is all the same then why choose the guy who separates children, locks them up, is supported by racists and doesn't denounce their support? Why not choose one of the others?
I may pull the same thing I did in 2016 and not vote if the candidate is Bernie. But I want to vote because of the local political scene. "Are they worth the cost of Trump..." It's the 8 years I'm worried about. He's made good on a lot of campaign promises even while he's been hamstrung. I'm sure most will disagree and would NOT (edit) like to argue that. That's not the point of the thread so, I'll decline to do so. I will concede that I'm OK with the collateral damage done after 4 years but don't think the Country can endure 8. I don't think it would be healthy for either side. Our political system is damaged. I think it can be repaired but it will take someone that can unite and isn't hell bent on pushing through their agenda not matter what the cost. I recall watching a PBS Frontline documentary on how the Obamacare bill got pushed through congress. It was a damned the torpedos approach and I think from that point on the republican resentment has set the tit-for-tat tone that we now see today. It also emboldened the repubs to enable Trump to push through his own agendas and leverage the executive power to the maximum (and beyond) extent. I'm not blaming Obama, because I think W. Bush's administration, courtesy of D. Cheney, started this executive power consolidation. Cheney really was aggressive in how far he could bend the normal powers of the executive branch. I think Obama took advantage of what was in place and fast tracked his Obamacare in a partisan way and of course Trump is pushing it to higher levels. And you have the House doing the same, with the subpoena powers being granted and of course put in place by the republicans.
I think you're wasting your time responding. In fact every second you spend on Facebook is a second wasted. But as far as the fake "illegals v veterans" bullshit in 2, the only context in which this makes sense is the fact that Trump is quite literally diverting from veterans funds to build his idiotic wall.
Did Trump really go down to the border and wrangle up all the children to put them cages with shackles on? That sounds horrible. I missed that headline. Wait a minute.... wasn't that policy in place prior to Trump being elected? It's this type of dialogue that divides the country. At some point we have to stop even if Trump's tweets don't. Fighting fire with fire is why we as a country are in the social mess that we're in.
Will Mexico be paying for Medicare for all and free college and student loan debt elimination and the green environmental thing?
I don't have Facebook, but if this is a window into the minds of those with it, no wonder there is a large fear of Russia influencing our election. It seems more rational suddenly...
The "blame trump on Obama" won't fly. Neither will blaming the Affordable Care Act... under which many millions of people gained health care cover. I peronally benefited as my oldest daughter (born with transposition of the great vessels) was not denied health care coverage. So comparing the things trump has and continues to do with that is simply wasted typing. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...effect-affordable-care-act-health-care-access
You are revealing the disingenuous of your position with the specious argument "did trump go to the border?" https://time.com/5612868/trump-obama-family-separation/ https://www.hispanicoutlook.com/articles/family-separation-policy https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/falsehoods-about-family-separations-linger-online/ https://www.statesman.com/news/2019...ma-have-family-separation-policy-before-trump https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/false-claim-of-immigrant-children-deaths-under-obama/
As much as I admire your effort and approach, I'm afraid you are failing to realize a fundamental truth here. The issue this poster has is not with the facts - if the truth was the issue, this person could easily obtain access to that information. Instead, they actually have created a bubble to protect the falsehood they believe in, by accusing the sources of truth as "fake" and developing elaborate conspiracies to defend their false reality. The real question is why does Trump's bag of obvious lies appeal so much to them? Why do they choose this false narrative over the truth? And until that is understood, not amount of rational discussion will persuade this person. None. Immigrants are not a problem in this country. But they are a threat. When white people see non-white people succeeding, becoming millionaires and billionaires, scientists, doctors, lawyers, or even becoming president, it represents a threat to people like this. Everything they have come to know and believe - that America is synonymous with white culture - is fading away. Music, sports, entertainment, science, financial success. The days of financial success without specialized skills or education are gone. It is the ego and unwillingness to embrace multiculturalism. This is the underlying effect that drove Trump to victory - look at where he won and with whom. This is why Trump supporters arguments don't make sense, because they aren't based on our reality, but on theirs - the one where the biggest threat is to their empowerment. Trump is the personification of that innate fear - and you can not defeat that fear with facts or logic. Look at his statements - they are squarely aimed at immigrants - yet illegal immigration wasn't considered a major issue until when? Trump? And yet it wasn't a real problem in the last 20 years even. Trump is using this to propel himself to victory. He used it even before he ran - what was the whole birther argument but an appeal to the worst instincts of people? And what was the result - it turned Trump into their hero despite how racist and wrong it was. Trump supporters will follow over the cliff. They will throw whatever out that opposes him including the constitution. They will appoint him dictator for life. Because the alternative is far worse to them. He is on their side, and they support him to the end.
The point is not to blame Obama. I'm suggesting that that there has been an escalation of partisanship since McConnell refused to do anything with the Dems because of the way the Affordable Care Act was muscled through congress at the time. The Frontline documentary noted that McConnell was pissed.
