Extra shooters don't provide extra driving space ... there are diminishing returns. The perimeter gets cramped, and the next defender to Harden (or Paul) can hedge closer while the primary defender forces Right or Left. And if we are in an unbalanced spread, rim help can cheat off the side that has the most shooters. That is: 2 can cover 3 shooters. These 5-Out offenses can excel (I'm a fan), but generally by adding motion. So, your new player needs to provide motion action ability, stuff Ariza didn't, and not every 3D player can. I'm not making this up. bottomline: Vertical Spacing provides as much spacing as 5-Out spacing, when it comes to supporting Harden/Paul driving. 5-Out allows motion and cuts into the spacing (as alternative to the drives), but your new player needs that ability...and that is a Scheme Change for us...requiring chemistry and probably less ability to execute simple ball-control attacks by Harden/Paul ISO on switches. Those offenses are also susceptible to turnovers, and shot clock problems than ball control PnR offenses.
Just a tangent here on the defense topic. Regarding the above statement, I think to take this team to the next level we need 2 creators and 2 shooters....but ONE of those shooters has the ability to put the ball on the floor to attach the basket or create. Basically, that is not Ennis AND Tucker. That is {Player X} AND Tucker. What we saw with GSW, at least in terms of offense, is that the Rockets need that THIRD GUY to be able to put the ball on the floor. Ok, with that said.....back to the defense talk.
I'm not. If we ain't going for the championship I ain't interested. If that's what you want let's go to the lottery and try to get Zion. That's how I look at our situation. Pull a 2018 Grizzlies and go get a rookie star. And you know just "mucking up the game with physical defense" is a recipe for a Warriors sweep. I don't want to watch that. Sorry. The easiest thing to find is a finisher. That's like mining for copper instead of gold. We've got guys in RGV that can finish. IMO, we need a guy that can finish and shoot. They are out there too. Gotta be willing to get outside the box. You wanna know what really puts opponents in a bind? Staring down the at Harden coming down on them with no help because they've got to stick the shooters. Sure Capela helped us get there. So did other guys. So can other guys. But once we get they we've got to be able to switch everything defensively against the best shooters on the planet and we've got to be able to spread arguably the best PnR defender out and make him cover a shooter while we iso on Curry. That is the recipe to win a championship Will. Banging bigs and rolling dunkers wont work. More true Rockets fans here need to be honest about this.
Jared Dudley could be a guy that answers the bell, when it comes to bringing physicality down low along with being able to provide perimeter defense on switches. Not someone that can put the ball on the floor and create but a solid contributor both defensively and offensively with floor spacing and 3 point shooting ability. He may require a pick or two (something I don't believe we'll be willing to forfeit) as he's on an expiring deal for the Nets.
Dude......You have to play 5 out against the Warriors. You seen what they do with our vertical spacing. Your point about vertical spacing is legit. What you and others aren't acknowledging is that just because we play 5 out doesn't prevent a pick and roll from happening... IF THE DEFENSE DICTATES IT BY OVERPLAYING THE PERIMETER SHOOTERS! When that happens you cut, or set a pick and run PnR or PnP. You read and react depending on how the opponent is defending. But, here's the kicker. You can't go 5 out when you're playing a guy that can't shoot! Unless he's ON THE BALL! And then it's really not 5 out anyways. It's 4 out. The biggest mismatch against every possible opponent in NBA basketball is a Harden ISO. Not the Capela/Harden, Capela/Paul PnR. But the Harden ISO. There is no bigger mismatch.anywhere in the game! Oh, continuing on, there is no more efficient offense play in the NBA than a Harden ISO. Capela/whoever Pick-n-Roll play is not as efficient as Harden ISO. And when it comes to the Warriors.....let's see Capela PnR versus Harden ISO on Curry..... LOL Gimme a break guys. Capela is our third highest paid player. He needs to be traded for player(s) that can switch defend at a better level than he can and can also shoot the 3.
What happened to that "elite rim protection" you used to harp on and on about as being so critical to our success? You're not going to get that with "another Tucker type."
I actually think we need: 4 great switch defenders and Harden 4 good to great shooters around Harden 1 other creator/facilitator alongside Harden/Paul that can also attack the basket. And Harden/Paul/Tucker need to be 3 of the top 5.
I did. But that was before Bzdelic. It would be great to have our own 7 foot unicorn that could switch, run pnr, shoot 3's, and be a rim protector and dominate the defensive glass and shut down post ups... But that guys name is Anthony Davis and he plays for the Pelicans.....who would be on the cusp of a championship if they had a James Harden on their team instead of Solomon Hill. This is why you have to watch the games. Basketball constantly evolves. The Warriors evolved it offensively. Bzdelic evolved the defense to a degree that surpasses the Warriors offensive evolvement........If implemented to the greatest degree. I no longer believe, in light of how the Warriors (and us and many other teams) have evolved offensively that a defensive big can hang out near the paint and not switch defend. This is the era of the greatest shooting we've ever seen. Shooters are everywhere. They're shooting 3's in 7th grade. And they're developing these sick handles to get that 3 off now. The efficiency of the three-point shot has finally blossomed into almost full effect. So until there is another rule change that impacts how offense is played or until there is a rule change that somehow assists defenses better, in light of the game today and the players skills, OUR best chance for a championship is with elite switching defense. Nothing else will work.
Okay, I'll buy that. But we can't give up the elite PnR play that is our bread and butter because our shooters simply aren't good enough. We have to maintain an offensive paint threat of some kind to keep teams from cheating more than they already do. And despite what you think, Clint is one of the best TALL centers in the league when it comes to keeping up with smaller guys on the perimeter. The fact that he also gives us strong rim protection is gravy because without that, our interior defense is even more horrible. With that in mind... Be honest. Name 5 centers who can play the type of elite PnR that Capela does while still being as good at switching as he is. BE HONEST.
I know what a 5-Out motion offense is, and Ariza did not (pretty much ever) do what you just described. I don’t think you know how 5-Out works if you think just any 3D player helps us do that. I’m not arguing with which of your two types of backups is best, I just question how you are falsely saying one is the clear winner by falsely saying no harm comes to Harden and Paul’s driving space and ability to run ball control offenses to limit turnovers against GSW elite perimeter defense. And I’m also steadfastly against your notion that we have to play small ball for 48 minutes....that’s just hyperbole and boring basketball discussion. We proved last year GSW has to defend us many minutes with two bigs, the second very much hurts their offense and spacing when on the court. bottomline: I wish you could just talk basketball and not waste your knowledge on spinning hyperboles to string webs covering large holes of logic...presumably to fortify your GM ideas.
Oh, I don't think our shooters are good enough. I think we've got to use Capela in trade to get them good enough. Ok. 5 guys that can run PnR as well and switch as well. Here you go. (See I'm not afraid of the question even if you tell me I'm wrong about every one of these guys I name. Because the real answer is outside the box you are attempting to put me in. You will find that out at the end of the post.) In no particular order: 1. Nerlens - I actually think he's a better switching defender and just as good a finisher. 2. Cody Zeller - believe it or not he's an athletic freak. 3. AD 4. Ed Davis 5. JJJr 6. Pascal 7. DJ - yes, he's just as good switching 8. Dereick Favors 9. Jordan Bell 10. Montrezl Harrell 11. Richaun Holmes And probably others...... Now, this is why the answer to your question doesn't matter in the scope of winning a championship. Here's the truth 1. Capela is an elite pick-and-roll finisher. (You say he's the best...fine. let's go with that answer.) 2. Even if you consider him the most elite PnR finisher he's not that far ahead of the rest of the pack i just mentioned to make any significant difference. Because he's a piss poor free throw shooter. 3. He's an ok switcher for a seven footer. He's above average at switching compared to all the other seven footers in the Association. 4. Even the most elite PnR roller/finisher is not good enough to win a championship running the "elite pick-and-roll". Because the Warriors have a MORE ELITE defensive answer for that elite PnR play that also allows them to HIDE Steph Curry's defensive liability. See, not only do the Warriors water down the efficiency of that elite PnR play to mediocre efficiency. But they also get the added benefit of keeping Curry hidden, fresh,...and even resting on the defensive end so at the end of games he's launching lasers from 40 feet with deadly accuracy because he's still got his legs. Your question is mute. That's why I keep telling you it's not about Capela. I don't hate Capela. He's a good player. He's simply not the right player that can help us beat the Warriors. Once again........we need to trade Capels for other players that can help us beat the Warriors. Now....I answered your question completely and thoroughly. Answer mine. Do you really think we can beat the Warriors and win a championship with Capela playing 30 minutes a game against them in a 7-game series? BE HONEST
Capela is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is - Ennis vs Durant Ennis vs Kawhi Ennis vs LeBron
Where did I ever say Ariza did? You say this about every basketball concept I talk about. No biggie. It's your hyperbole you constantly go to. And I never said just any 3&D player would help us. LOL. I didn't say anything about harm to Harden/Paul's driving ability. What I implied is their drives, finishes, free throws, and being in the bonus early...while we have shooters on the floor that then cannot be fouled without going to the line and going to 1.5 pps or more......is more efficient than the PnR. And I implied that is especially true against the Warriors....Where you have Harden ISO'd on Curry. Good Lord. How much simpler can I make it for you? Harden isoing on Curry versus Harden and Capela running PnR against Curry and Green. O boy. Oh?????? Tell me all about our two-big lineup that the GS for a loop........? I missed that. Waiting....but not anxiously with baited breath.... Logic. Yeah.....you're the logical one now... Harden/Capela pick-and-roll vs. Curry/Green pnr defense is better for us than Harden iso vs. Curry Yeppers....@heypartner the great logician
@basketballholic Apologies if you've addressed this in some other thread I haven't seen, but can you post your ideal trade(s) that would give us the lineup that you'd like to see? Who do we trade Capela for? Who else has to go, and who do we keep? You've said we don't need a big elite pnr center, we need a small ball 5 and we need better shooters. Who are the 7-9 guys that we play to beat the Warriors in the playoffs? We've all seen your posts about Thon Maker but surely you don't see him as a good immediate fit for us to beat the Warriors. So who do you like?
Thon Maker is a guy that I talked about trading Capela for three seasons ago in the draft. I know we were trying to move into the first round for him. And I said I think he's got a good chance to have a better career than Capela. I still believe that. And I'd still take him on this roster as a piece to develop. I still think he has potential. IMO, the key loss we had from last season was Luc. Not Ariza. I think Ariza has past his prime, is now close to a minimum salary player but no longer worthy of taking up cap space or trading assets for. I would however take him back on a buyout for the bench. Guys I would look at. Well, let's talk about the 5 spot for a minute. I just wrote a thread this morning in the RGV folder about Bruno. I think we need to sign him. Minor move that could have major consequences. Give him 3 years...put him in the rotation NOW, and let him develop chemistry. He's a good bench piece. Tiny contract. Could pay huge dividends against the Warriors. Good defender. Long arms and knows how to use them defensively. Can finish PnR. And can step out for the 3. I think we need to get him signed or we're going to regret it. He's a great fit at small-ball 5. And has nothing to prove at RGV. Toronto has Pascal....and he's playing.....Bruno is better than him at the 5. You already know how I feel about Justise Winslow...as a 3/4...next to PJ. No, he's not a great shooter.....yet. But he's improving. And he's a top 10 defender of the ilk of Iggy. And he's a 3rd playmaker. I have no trouble seeing him in the corner opposite PJ with Harden/Paul/small ball 5 out top. Or even him at the small ball 5, setting the pick, then getting the ball back for the drive. I'm convinced at this time that Otto Porter would be a sensational fit with PJ switching in and out of the 4/5 spots. Don't think Wizards will give him up. I think they're going to wiggle down close to the luxury tax line by making a trade here shortly involving some of their expirings and possibly a guy like Mahini. Then I think they hold out until the trade deadline. I'd be in on a deal for James Johnson to play small ball 5. I think if healthy he'd be an upgrade to Capela at the 5 period. Better switching defender. Capable of running PnR. Capable of spotting up in the corner. Another low cost budget guy that I believe is seriously undderrated, is a better switch defender than Capela, and has the capacity to be a crazy finisher in the PnR PLUS step out for threes is Richaun Holmes. I've written about him since before he was discovered in the draft. He's wasting away in Phoenix. He needs to be playing small ball 5.....just like Harrell is.....very successfully I might add. I've always liked Ed Davis defensively. He's a cheap Clint Capela with better defense...and rebounding. No range admittedly. But a budget contract that would make losing Capela mute. 7-9 guys Harden, Paul, Tucker are keepers...for sure. Need 4 more guys with these skill sets. 1 more playmaker 3 more shooters 4 more switchable defenders and I don't think Ennis is good enough to be in the top 7. Maybe 8 or 9. But not top 7. I think Gary Clark or Bruno could make the top 7. I think with regards to our salary cap situation...we've got to find at least one guy for the primary rotation on a minimum contract. Bruno, Clark, .....somebody. I like Clark. I like Bruno. I actually think both guys at the minimum is good use of cap and roster space. Then you use Capela, Gordon, picks, expirings to get your other primary pieces....who they are...I think it's up for grabs until the deadline. I don't think you move Capela/Gordon until the deadline UNLESS the right deal unfolds. And it most likely won't until then. So until then we've got to limp along and hope to find primary rotation pieces that can be primary rotation pieces after we make big moves at the deadline. Small salary guys that I think fit, would be an upgrade to our rotation, and might be acquirable now or in the near future, at 3,4,5 spots and backup playmakers: Satoransky Tyus Holmes Mason - third playmaker DJ Augustin-third playmaker Tolliver (expiring salary, possibly useful player) Noel-if he were available Marcus Morris-would be a great small-ball option with his shooting and playmaking ability. I'd be interested in Stanley Johnson if he could be acquired cheap for a look at small ball 5. I'd be interested in getting Dekker back here to play small ball 5. Ekpe Udoh-would fit our defense to a T. One of the very best switch defenders on the planet. Would love to get him cheap. James Nunnally Hezonja Jordan Bell Medium salary guys that we may be able to acquire using Knight and smaller assets James Johnson-small ball 5 Warren-3 Harkless possible fit at the 3,4,5, worth a look if we could move Knight for him and another contract. Shumpert at the 3 Julius Randle is a steal on his contract. Great small ball 5 fit for us. Lee Guys that need to go: Knight - broken up into another two-year deal (maybe 3-year), expiring contract, and small asset Nene-salary filler, he's done MCW apparently Melo at least one of Hartenstein/Qi in right deal Chriss (expiring salary, useless player) Capela (hopefully has great trade value) possibly Gordon in right deal Dream acquisitions Anthony Davis Kevin Durant Otto Porter Bam Adebayo (I'd give up Capela/Gordon/picks and take back Whiteside to get him) Draymond I am very much in favor of playing the 5 spot the exact same way the Warriors do. You get a couple guys cheap to eat regular season minutes and maybe even early post season minutes. Your stiffs. Then distribute your assets on the rest of the spots. with the key being having guys that can defend the 5 both on the perimeter and down low, and can shoot the ball.
And here I was thinking I was giving you a hard time about the Thon Maker thing earlier in this thread: "Well," thunk I, "maybe he's moved on from that." Sigh. No one is doubting there might be better options out there for this, that, or the other position on the team. I just don't see them trading Capela. Nor do I see Thon Maker making his way here. They won't chase a project.
