Potential Trade Partners for Rox (in depth)

emjohn · Dec 3, 2003

I'm running down every.single.team in the L and trying to figure who's available for what the Rockets would most likely deal (Cuttino, Kelvin). I'm doing the best I can to be *roughly* aware of salaries, team needs for Rox, and team needs for the other squads (unlike the majority of trade scenarios here).

Rockets are likely looking for a decently sized 2, or a complete (Cato = no O, Mo T = no D) player at the 4. Probably have mild interest in a legit 3 (Jackson can move to the 2 and provide the size).

Cato - 3 years, avg of $8
Cat - 3 years, avg of $5.8 (player option after 2)

Atlanta: SAR - 2 years, avg $14
Cato with Ratliff? Cat with Terry? I don't see the interest.

Boston: Lafrentz (6, $11)? Baker (3, $14.5)? Battie (3, $5)? No way.

Chicago: Cato has no place here. Fizer's not much of an upgrade.

Cleveland: Davis won't exactly help chemistry, Miles can't shoot, Wagner's small and hurt, Diop's hurt, Mihm's soft, and Boozer is untouchable.

Dallas: Cat won't help their problem of too many scorers, so Cato is the only bait. Jamison (5, $14.5) would be nice, but Les has made it clear he won't play in Luxury Taxland. Fortson is a smaller Cato, and they aren't looking to move him. Finley (5, $16) would be a good fit, but has a hefty contract for someone his age.

Denver: Really no one around that's available.

Detroit: Cat and Hamilton are too similar for them to want him. Sura (1, $6) would help the backcourt, but they're holding on to him for the summer cap room they need for Okur. Williamson is a waste.

Golden State: Clifford Robinson is in his last years, Cato doesn't make sense on a team with Dampier and Foyle. Troy Murphey and Jason Richardson are in their rookie contracts and would be hard to pry out.

Indiana: This is a potential trade partner. Pollard was a bust as a Miller replacement, so Cato has value. Harrington (3, $6), Bender (1, $6), and Tinsley (rookie contract) are all expendable (to varying degrees) and would offer help. Artest and O'Neal are untouchable, obviously.

Clippers: Brand is untouchable. Maggette (6, $7) is possible for the right deal, but doesn't play D and doesn't fit into the category of "smart players". QR, Ely, or Wilcox (rookie contracts) would be intriguing, but Sterling has never been one to let go of cheap salaries.

Lakers: The only guys worth having aren't moving. Kobe is a pipedream, and nobody behind the big four are of any value.

Memphis: Another team that would be happy to take Cato on. Plenty of swingmen to be had in return. Miller (1, $3) or Battier (rookie contract) aren't much of an upgrade at small forward. Gasol is untouchable and Dickerson is finished. Swift is more hapless than Cato ever was. Outlaw (2, $5) is a great team guy but has as much to offer on offense as Cato.

Miami: Cato has value here, but not Cat. Grant (4, $14) is worth a look, but luxury tax fears could kill that deal. Eddie Jones (4, $14) is simply not worth the salary he brings. Butler and Wade (rookie contracts) aren't going to be moved. Odom (6, $60) shouldn't be dismissed too fast. He's overpaid, but would help a lot with his passing and ball-handling.

Milwaukee: Tim Thomas (3, $13) would be a bulkier EG, and this is a team that would be excited to bring in a package of players for one guy that many think underachieves. I can't picture Desmond Mason or Redd being available, or there being room for Cat with Redd on the team. Damon Jones for Moochie would be a utopic scenario.

Minnesota: Wally (6, $10.5) has been iffy this year, and if he made too much before, he's definetlly not worth the money now. Spree is a KG favorite and their best FA pickup - he's not going anywhere. KG trade scenarios are just plain stupid and need to end.

New Jersey: I can smell a fire sale about to happen. Byron Scott should be gone soon, and for all the fans here that call Thorn a genius over EG sour grapes need to remember he botched big time in the form of Mutombo and Mourning (no insurance on any of the 4 years and no NBA relief). They ate TONS of money with that, and Kidd's knee is flaming out. Jefferson and K-Mart (rookie contracts) are being exposed as the B-grade players they are now that the system is falling apart. Their contract demands coupled with the team's window closing could lead to trade talks. Unfortunately, the Cato-Cat package doesn't look good for this team.

New Orleans: Wesley isn't attractive to the Rox if Cat is on the block. Davis and Mashburn aren't likely going anywhere, and Magloire is at least as good as Cato but 6 times cheaper.

New York: Plenty of PFs for sale, but they're all undersized. Cat would be attractive to them, but I don't know about Cato. It'd be nice to see Othella-my-fella (2, $3) come back. Thomas (2, $5.5) for Cat might slip by. KVH (3, $14.5) would be a nightmare. Spoon (3, $6) isn't worth the money.

Orlando: They have only two good players, and no way are they being moved. Howard (6, $6) is possible, but isn't worth it for either Cato or Mobley.

Philly: Cat and Iverson could never share the court. Cato would be welcome, though Dalembert has been good. McKie (5, $6) would be a nice pick up though he's very similar to Jackson. I strongly doubt Snow (6, $6) would be moved.

Phoenix: Starbury, Marion, and Stoudemire are staying put, period. Hardaway (3, $14) could be moved and would help Steve a lot but he makes way too much. No one else seems like a fit.

Portland: For all the trade talk, I see them holding onto Sheed til summer and letting his $17 just go away. Wells is a punk and they can also just decline his option in the summer and let his $6 disappear. Randolph isn't moving. Davis has no offense, and would be a wash for Cato (if we could really send him back). Derek Anderson (4, $9) has been injury-prone and isn't really an upgrade from Mobley. Patterson has too much baggage. Woods (rookie contract) has potential, but I don't see JVG being interested.

Sacramento: Webber, Miller, Jackson, Bibby, and Stojakovich are untouchable. They'll likely hold Divac and let his contract come off the books. There's no need for a Cato or Mobley, though Christie (3, $7) is probably available for the right offer.

SA: Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan aren't available. Turkolgu (rookie contract) and Mercer (1, $7) probably are. No need for Cato, and not much need for Cat.

Seattle: Could probably use Cato, but not Mobley. Allen and Murray won't be dealt, and I doubt Barry would be moved either. He's been a marvel running the team. I actually would not be surprised if Rashard Lewis (?, $8) is available for a center, he seems to have fallen out of favor a bit.

Toronto: Lamond Murray (3, $5) and Mo Pete (rookie contract) are available but offer little help.

Utah: I don't see these guys dealing for Cato (Ostertag) or Cat (Kirilenko/Harpring).

Washington: Cat won't hold value for a team already top-heavy in guards. They don't have much to offer for Cato if Stackhouse isn't available.

So, there you go.

Evan

goophers · Dec 3, 2003

If we get rid of Mobley and Cato, we need a PF and PG in return, or the ability to get those.

Personally, I'd like something along the lines of Francis/(Cato or trade exemption) for McInnis and Randolph. I like Francis, but he isn't worth what he's paid. That gives Portland real value back and helps with their "need to clean up our image" problem.

Buck88 · Dec 3, 2003

Don't know how desprate Dallas is for a center but I like the idea of Jamison for Cato swap. Would diffently help the Rockets offense, which IMHO is our biggest problem.

Jamison is a outside-in PF who is a bit undersized, but with Yao in the post and our guards being fairly good rebounders it makes some since. Dallas would want more then just Cato I'm sure. Cato and Nachbar(Nellie loves those Euros) might at least kindle talks. I'm just not sure how much value Cato really has. Plus I'm not sure Jamerson is JVG type of player.

BigRay · Dec 3, 2003

I would really try calling the sonics about Rashard Lewis I know it's prob. a pipe dream but i feel it's destined for Shard to play for the rockets.

maybe Cato/Nachbar or Eddie Griffin

for Rashard Lewis

or

Cato/Nachbar or Eddie Griffin

for Shareff Adur Raheem

gucci888 · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by BigRay
I would really try calling the sonics about Rashard Lewis I know it's prob. a pipe dream but i feel it's destined for Shard to play for the rockets.

maybe Cato/Nachbar or Eddie Griffin

for Rashard Lewis

or

Cato/Nachbar or Eddie Griffin

for Shareff Adur Raheem
Click to expand...

Lewis is averaging 25 points a game and should be an all-star this year, both of those trades are ridiculous. Sonics probably are not even listening to offers for him. SAR on the other hand may be obtainable, but Cat must be in the offer. Reasonable trade:

Cat/Cato/Boki for SAR/2nd round pick

SAR could really take some of the scoring pressure off of Steve and Yao, and he can rebound too.

oldman · Dec 3, 2003

i would love to see cato/mobley for tinsley/harrington/pollard. im not sure if it works salary wise though.

dbigfeet · Dec 3, 2003

all the trade are BOO-BOO till you get to R. Lewis (come on Home son)

Deuce · Dec 3, 2003

emjohn, great breakdown. I think you did a pretty fair analysis of the Rockets trade landscape in the NBA with the players we have available.

Ultimately I would love for us to get 2 types of players.

1) A guard that can pass the basketball. It can be a 2 guard or a PG. And that guard can come off the bench or start. But in crunch time they would play with Francis in the backcourt. Think Brent Barry type of player here.

2) A forward that can score. It can be either a PF or a SF. JJ and Cato are not giving us enough points and if we move Mobley we need to make up some of those points. Rashard Lewis or Shareef Abdur Rahim would be ideal here I think, especially Lewis as he would be able to stretch the defense with Yao in the middle. But I think getting Lewis is a pipedream! Perhaps someone like an Al Harrington would be available though. The Pacers have depth there with Croshere and Bender and could use a center like Cato and a guard like Mobley to take the place of Miller in a few years.

I am not sure we can obtain both types of players with what we will be offering but if we can get one of those types of players that will go a long way towards adding pieces to the team that work well with Yao and Francis.

MLC1MGC2ALC3 · Dec 3, 2003

How about Portland :

Houston trades: PG Steve Francis (18.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.7 apg in 38.7 minutes)
PF Maurice Taylor (10.6 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.4 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.9 apg in 40.2 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (2.9 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 14.9 minutes)
Houston receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 3.2 apg in 39.5 minutes)
SG Derek Anderson (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (11.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 4.7 apg in 29.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -18.7 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and -2.9 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 3.2 apg in 39.5 minutes)
SG Derek Anderson (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (11.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 4.7 apg in 29.3 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Steve Francis (18.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.7 apg in 16 games)
PF Maurice Taylor (10.6 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 10 games)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.9 apg in 16 games)
PG Moochie Norris (2.9 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.3 apg in 16 games)
Change in team outlook: +18.7 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and +2.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Then in the summer time go after a big free agent. This move gets raid of the Rockets click (Steve, Cat & Moochie) the most overrated threesome in the league.

dback816 · Dec 3, 2003

I'd trade anyone other than Yao/Steve for Eric Snow But I know that just ain't gonna happen

Tim Thomas would be good, and so is Michael Redd, but like you said Redd wont be moved. What we need are smart players and a good PG...but anyone who's avaliable right now just doesnt fit the bill.

It'd be cool if we can get Sheed next summer. His work ethic and numbers have been horrible, so he cant demand the max contract anymore. He's off the drugs and **** if you ask me because he has a family unlike the other guys, but that's no gurrantee that hes gonna behave ON the court tho.

Who knows...maybe EG is gonna comeback determined to be the best?

Yetti · Dec 3, 2003

We should shoot for the'STARS' To get Lewis which should be our #1 goal, we would need to send Francis in the deal plus Eddie Griffin. Otherwise we would be waisting our time.

F.D. Khan · Dec 3, 2003

I think a perfect trade partner would be Seattle.

They are full of quality 2-3's in Barry, Ray Allen, Murray, Radmonovic and Rashard Lewis.

Even though Barry's contract ends at the end of the season, a trade of Barry and Jerome James (big body) for Cato and Change would be a positive in my eyes.

I even think Penny Hardaway could help this team if we could pawn off Moochie and Cato for him. Of course we would be quite thin in the front court but there are many PF's available throughout the league.

emjohn · Dec 3, 2003

Bonzi Wells just dealt to Memphis for Wesley Person. Person is in the last year of his contract, so that makes some sense.

If Memphis doesn't dig Bonzi, they can decline his option in the summer and nothings lost.

Evan

oldman · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by emjohn
Bonzi Wells just dealt to Memphis for Wesley Person. Person is in the last year of his contract, so that makes some sense.

If Memphis doesn't dig Bonzi, they can decline his option in the summer and nothings lost.

Evan
Click to expand...

they would lose a 1st round pick.

Relativist · Dec 3, 2003

I'd love to get Barry, and while Seattle loves him, he's not untouchable. However, I don't think we have anyone (available) they'd want. Maybe Cato, but not for Barry.

What do you guys think of Howard? I think Orlando would do a Cat for Howard deal, but the impression that I get is that Howard, while a good team player, is kind of soft and only a decent rebounder.

Would Alvin Williams be an ideal backcourt mate for Steve? Certainly he's a great role player. He might be available for the right price. I don't know if Cato alone could get it done. (Salaries don't add up either).

Would anyone consider a Cat and Cato for Thomas and Ward trade? We lose on the talent side, but we gain in terms of needs and salary.

pariah · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by Relativist

Would anyone consider a Cat and Cato for Thomas and Ward trade? We lose on the talent side, but we gain in terms of needs and salary.
Click to expand...

If keeping score fell by the wayside (i mean the score is not really all that important anyway...as long as they have fun) then yes I would approve that deal.

Otherwise, that's a horrible trade for the Rockets. I wouldn't trade one of our two for BOTH of those guys.

MacBeth · Dec 3, 2003

Seriously...and I know this is endemic throughout fans of every sports team...most people in here tend to really overrate our players in terms of trade value. We consistently bemoan the likes of Moochie as a back-up, yet you will almost daily see trade offers for a starting pg with Moochie sent to replace him, or Moochie traded as an asset with the comment " They need a point guard." Cato and scrap for Rashard Lewis!?!?!? Cato for Antwan Jamison!?!?

A comment on Cato, for example. He has never succeeded as a starter for long. Other teams know this. Before he had a pretty good year last year as a back-up, he was regularly bemoaned in here as an albatross contract...yet now, after 15 games as a starter in which he has been decent, yet also inspired many to long for a legit starting PF, people are suggesting trading him for this or that All Star. Yes, the league is bereft in legit starting centers, but NEWSFLASH, Cato has NEVER established himself as a legit starting center. He has been a consistent motivation problem, and always been hot/cold as a starter. Yet we're contemplating getting a few young 20+ppg players for him? Come on...

Re: Mobley...he is going to have the same strengths and weaknesses elsewhere as he would here. He's not young enough to be considered improving anymore, so what you see is what you get: Strenghts: Individual offense, first step, great contract. Weaknesses: Decision making, team play, secondary statistics ( assts, reb's, etc.), shooting %. He has the value of a potentially great offense only6th man, or, as he is with us, a flawed starting sg.

There have been some decent trades suggested in here, but as ususal, there are those which are so homerish it's discouraging. Why is it the same players we bash and regularly demand to be traded are the ones we assume other teams are just salivating to posses at almost any cost? They see what we see.

MManal · Dec 3, 2003

Relativist,

Very logical trade ideas of players that would definitely fit imo. I like Alvin Williams a lot, but right now I doubt Toronto makes another trade after already changing over so much personnel with the Bulls trade. Brent Barry definitely would fit this team well, and I would be willing to part with Cato for him. You could possibly even get Barry with Cuttino if you do a 3 way transaction with the Magic (sending Howard to Seattle, Cuttino to Orlando).

The New York deal I like a lot. Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward would be excellent fits on this roster imo. It is not easy to find a true PF that can put up double doubles on a regular basis to go along with very solid defense and the ability to effectively hit the mid range shot. Also, Charlie Ward is a very steady PG that can consistently hit from the perimeter (exactly what this team needs). In addition, Ward has tons of playoff experience and has been to the Finals as well. This deal would also give the Rockets TONS of cap flexibility as they could make Ward a FA after this season.

The Orlando deal also makes good sense imo. The Magic have plenty of players this team can use (ie Juwan Howard, Gordan Giricek, Tyronne Lue). Lue in many ways is like a younger Charlie Ward. Howard I feel is an upgrade over Mo Taylor in that he can consistently provide 15-17 PPG to go along with 7-8 RPG. He is having a little bit of a down year thus far, but Howard is definitely an upgrade over the Rockets current forwards.

StupidMoniker · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by MacBeth
Re: Mobley...Weaknesses: ... shooting %.
Click to expand...

Actually, Mobley has the second highest adjusted FG% of any SG in the NBA, behind only Brent Barry, a player that shoots half as many shots and is the fourth option on his team.

MacBeth · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by StupidMoniker
Actually, Mobley has the second highest adjusted FG% of any SG in the NBA, behind only Brent Barry, a player that shoots half as many shots and is the fourth option on his team.
Click to expand...

uh...15 games. I mean historically.

Forums

Potential Trade Partners for Rox (in depth)

Which trade (for Cato/Cat) would you go for?

Indiana - for Bender or Harrington

LAC - for Magette

Miami - for Grant or Odom

Milwaukee - for Thomas

NY - for Thomas or Harrington

Philly - for McKie

Seattle - for Lewis

Forget it - none of this looks good.

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Potential Trade Partners for Rox (in depth)

Which trade (for Cato/Cat) would you go for?

Indiana - for Bender or Harrington

LAC - for Magette

Miami - for Grant or Odom

Milwaukee - for Thomas

NY - for Thomas or Harrington

Philly - for McKie

Seattle - for Lewis

Forget it - none of this looks good.

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Deuce Context & Nuance

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