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Why won't Trump lash out at Putin?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jul 16, 2018.

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Would Trump lashing out at Putin have helped solve our problems with Russia, or would it have made t

  1. It would have helped resolve them

    6 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. It would have made them worse

    4 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    90% of Republicans disagree. Let's hope that party takes the biggest beating of its life for that fact.
     
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    As Sir Winston Churchill said: ‘To jaw-jaw is better than war-war.’

    The piece below is by Piers Morgan, who has nailed this issue pretty much exactly right. If you want to discredit your own intellectual credentials here, attack the messenger, rather than the message, and you will have achieved your objective. Instead, if you can, try responding to or refuting the message.
    Do you want war with Russia? Do you want North Korea to continue escalating their nuclear weapons program? Do you want the other NATO countries to continue to be overly dependent on the US for their national defense, both nuclear and conventional defense alike?

    We need to try to fix these problems and move away from increasing tensions and opportunities for conflict. Perhaps that is why the Trump-haters are objecting so loudly here, because they see him moving towards de-escalation of conflicts and the development of sustainable defense arrangements that allow for more peace, rather than more war. Maybe the Trump-loathers want to see him pursue more war, because that would be failure for him and for us, which is what they want, if they cannot be in control of everything.

    We need to try pursuing a more balanced, rational responsible course of action in our foreign affairs. Trump is making an effort to do that, for a change. For those that are still mentally healthy enough to accept this, let's give peace - based on a position of strength - a chance.
     
  3. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    it's ironic that you try and channel the ghost of Winston Churchill while Trump is busy doing a spot on impression of Neville Chamberlain at Munich.
     
    #243 Ottomaton, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    You must be thinking of Obama's various capitulations towards Russia, including:
    1. The Obama directive to US intelligence agencies to 'stand down' in response to cyberattacks from Russia during 2016. Chamberlain, er, Obama knew and refused to call out the Russians or to do anything to stop it.
    2. Obama's threat to the Russians of a "red line" in Syria, which the Russians crossed and Obama capitulated. Prior to Obama, the US was the lead nation in these conflicts. Thanks to Chamberlain, er, Obama, now the Russians are.
    3. The Russian takeover of the Crimea, which Obama's bungling in the Ukraine emboldened the Russians to undertake. When they did, Chamberlain, er, Obama capitulated.
    4. In 2009, as part of the Obama/Hillary Russian 'reset,' Chamberlain, er, Obama cancelled the planned missile defense shield for our NATO allies in Poland and the Czeck Republic. Why? Because he was trying to appease Vladimir Putin.
    5. In 2010, Chabmberlain, er, Obama allowed Russia to sell its S-300 missile defense system to Iran, this time to appease Russia into supporting his Iran nuclear weapons agreement, which has now been properly ash-canned.
    6. Chamberlain, er, Obama ignored Russian violations of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty throughout his presidency, despite calls from members of Congress from both parties.
    7. Also, here is a story from October 2012 documenting how Putin was openly rooting for Obama to win the upcoming November 2012 presidential election in the US: https://www.dw.com/en/russia-rooting-for-obama-in-us-election/a-16341745

    Clearly, you are projecting again, this time by trying to project Obama's recorded conduct onto Trump, who has not engaged in any of these sorts of substance-based appeasements or capitulations, the way that Obama obviously did
     
    #245 MojoMan, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Bobbythegreat likes this.
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    How quickly the tables turn. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Let's read more Vox and Federalist and let this Cold War amongst neighbors simmer a little more.

    Psstt...I think the ferener press has their own hidden agendas to peddle.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    This is very curious and ignorant of the actual facts.
    1. Obama did take actions against Russia after the cyber-attacks. They have been listed on this board.
    2. Obama did ask for authorization to use military strikes against Syria. The Republican congress denied it.
    3. Obama also took actions against Russia as a result of the invasion of Ukraine.
    4. Russia then hadn't taken all of the actions that Russia has now.
    5. The agreement prevented or delayed Iran's nuclear weapon capabilities.
    6. I haven't researched this. I'll take your word for it even though you were wrong on every single other thing you posted here.
    7. Cheering for him to win isn't the same as trying to cheat the voters and commit espionage attacks against the U.S.

    You keep calling Obama Chamberlain which is supposed to be a derogatory comment based on the belief that Obama was appeasing the Russians.
    Yet, you are cheering on what Trump is doing now when the Russians have done far worse. What Trump is doing is far more appeasing to them than anything Obama did.

    I'll list what Obama did in reaction to the things you mentioned one more time.
    1. Released a report of what Russia did.
    2. Made a public declaration of against Russia's offenses.
    3. Asked congress for authorization to make military strikes against Syria
    4. Expelled Russian diplomats.
    5. Instituted sanctions and actually enforced them against Russia. He didn't make the exceptions Trump has done.
    6. In part as a consequence of those sanctions Russia has been in a recession since 2014.
    7. Helped strengthen and hold strong our alliance with NATO allies.


    For the record, helping to send Russia into a 4-year and counting recession isn't appeasement.
     
    B-Bob, NewRoxFan and Invisible Fan like this.
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Only one of the two has attempted straight up appeasement and capitulation. Even if I were to agree with your interesting take on events during the Obama administration, did he ever "ask Putin if he did it" and then take him at his word? If Obama folded, Trump never even got to the point that he could fold - a la Chamberlin striking a deal to put a happy face on Hitler raping Czechoslovakia in Munich. Even if he was the weakest president ever, at least Obama said "No" whereas Trump gets "grabbed by the p***y" by Puttin and pretends to like it.

    I can tell when you guys are discombobulated when you go back to the "but Obama..." playbook. And if seen a whole lot of "but Obama..." in the last week. Just close your eyes and think of Mar a Lago and you'll get through this.
     
    #249 Ottomaton, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Hey the right wing loves them some Put-ang! They can't get enough of his red sickle to suck on.
     
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    As I believe you know very well, Trump never believed Putin's denials - Putin himself being a former KGB intelligence officer - that Russia has constantly been meddling in our affairs.

    I do not believe that you believe that, because if you do, you truly are an imbecile. And while I disagree with pretty much everything you post, I have no interest in improperly calling you or anyone else around here names. Maybe I am wrong and I am giving you too much credit here, but I don't think so.

    Trump is trying to flatter Putin as part of his effort to get Putin to cooperate with him on a number of big issues that we need Russian cooperation in order to resolve. Putin knows Trump is doing this. Trump knows that Putin knows. And pretty much everyone with even a modicum of discernment can see and recognize this little public dance that Trump is doing for Putin.

    You and many others among the TDS Democrat left apear to be blinded by the hysterical rage you continue to experience in the aftermath of being entirely evicted from any position of controlling power in Washington DC, and also generally at the state level as well. Just FYI, this hysterically out of control, petulant, almost foaming at the mouth conduct is not a good look for you guys.
     
  12. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Brain washed lol
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You really are living in denial my friend. You sound so looney.

    In other real news:



    Seems that former FBI and GOP congressman understands what's going on here. That Putin is the Puppet Master.
     
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Trump the Puppet Master is a wonderfully amusing thought. He's just been playing dumb since about.... 1982 to set this all up?
     
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Audience bursts out laughing after GOP Senate candidate says Trump is ‘standing up’ to Russia
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...hing-after-gop-senate-candidate-says-trump-is

     
    B-ball freak likes this.

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