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[WALLS WORK] Over 35 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces since start of "protest"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Bilateral relations have evolved from an initial US policy of sympathy and support for the creation of a Jewish homeland in 1948 to an unusual partnership that links a small but militarily powerful Israel, dependent on the United States for its economic and military strength, with the American superpower trying to balance other competing interests in the region, including Russia's intentions.[6][7] Others maintain that Israel is a strategic ally, and that US relations with Israel strengthen the US presence in the Middle East.[1] Israel is one of the United States' two original major non-NATO allies in the Middle East. Late Republican Senator Jesse Helms used to call Israel "America's aircraft carrier in the Middle East", when explaining why the United States viewed Israel as such a strategic ally, saying that the military foothold in the region offered by the Jewish State alone justified the military aid that the United States grants Israel every year.[8]Currently, there are seven major non-NATO allies in the Greater Middle East
     
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  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member
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    There is plenty written on pre-1948 history. But you suggested a comparison between the 1948 creation of the state of Israel that resulted in the displacement of Palestinians and the Ottoman Empire. I keep asking for your explanation... perhaps one day you will provide it.
     
  3. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Surely there must be some sort of limit (thousands?) beyond which the average American will become concerned about Israel snipers murdering Palestinians or crippling their legs just for being within a 100 yards of their fence or even ineffectively throwing stones..
     
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  4. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I'm sure there are many of us who could learn more about the pre-1948 history of the region.
     
  5. conquistador#11

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    [​IMG]


    Many many many muslims supported nazi germany hoping it would lead to freedom from british oppression. The fuhrer in his speeches would even reference muslims as both were fighting a common enemy.. 'the jews." (I'm the Best watcher of the history channel ever,when they used to show history stuff and not pawn shops)

    After everything the jewish brotherhood has endured from when Eve was carved out of Adam's rib, it's easy to understand why they need a safe haven and why they would defend it with no regards.
    But as if often the case in history, the oppressed can become the oppressors. Israel is at that point, oppressing.
    War is the terrorism of the rich. Terrorism is the war of the poor. Both are pretty shittie.

    Muslims have also been interfered with by Spaniards, British and Americans. No one likes other foreign powers coming into one's country, well almost no one.
    I'm not even going to pretend I know a solution. I just find it odd that people that call out other people on twitter or anywhere else for not being 'free thinkers' can't be free thinkers and put themselves in the shoes and sandals that BOTH jewish and Muslims have gone through.


    Back to Israel, Do the people know who the 'preacher' John Hagee @ the embassy was? Israel, run the other way. It's a cookbook! Those americans believe you should convert to christianity or will go to hell. The fuhrer was a bad bad bad hambre. He was not sent by god like those crazies believe.
     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Look up Poe's Law before responding
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    That's a war crime.
     
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  7. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    War crimes? Iranian war crimes!!! Iranians snook into Israel, dressed as IDF troops and slaughtered Palestinians. A devious but failed black flag operation.


    Nikki Haley denies Gaza violence is related to new US Embassy in Jerusalem

    At an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council Tuesday, United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley denied the violence in Gaza Monday had anything to do with the U.S. opening up its new embassy in Jerusalem.

    Rather, the violence comes from those who reject the existence of the state of Israel in any location,” Haley said. “The location of the embassy has no bearing on the specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders. … It does not undermine the prospects for peace in any way.”

    Haley placed the blame for the violence, in which at least 60 people were killed according to Gaza’s health ministry, squarely on Hamas terrorists, backed by Iran.

    A vocal supporter of Israel, Haley walked out of the Security Council meeting in protest before the Palestinian representative addressed the chamber.

    Haley attempted to move attention to Iran throughout her remarks, chastising the Security Council for not focusing more on Iran’s destabilizing activities in the region. “That is violence that should occupy our attention, too,” Haley said.

    While other representatives condemned the killing of Palestinians by live fire in the strongest terms, Haley merely said, “We are all concerned about violence in the Middle East. The United States deplores the loss of human life.”

    Haley went further than other Trump administration officials in talking about whether Israel should show restraint. Until Tuesday, White House deputy press Security Raj Shah and a State Department spokesperson both agreed Israel has a right to defend itself, but would not say whether Israel has a responsibility to act with restraint.

    But Haley claimed Israel’s response to protestors has indeed been restrained, saying “no country in this chamber would act with more restraint than Israel has.”

    Nickolay Mladenov, the United Nations Special Coordinator for Middle East Peace Process, began the session with a markedly different tone, calling Monday's events a tragedy for the Palestinians.

    “Who can find the words to console the mother of a child that has been killed? Who?” Mladenov asked. He called on Israel to protect their borders proportionally, and to investigate every incident that causes loss of life. He also said the international community must step in to prevent war in the region.

    Kuwait called for the emergency session Monday, and also proposed a draft statement that would have called for an independent investigation into the deadly violence. But the United States blocked the adoption of the statement, according to a UN Security Council diplomat.

    “We regret the Security Council was unable to adopt the draft statement,” Kuwait’s Ambassador Mansour Al-Otaibi said.

    The Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine to the United Nations, Riyad Mansour, responded by calling for a “transparent, independent, and international inquiry to be conducted.”

    “The occupation is the main source of violence in our region. Any attempt to falsify this by some does not match reality. To those who have different rhetoric and agendas, why have you so often blocked a transparent, independent, international inquiry?” Mansour said, without directly referring to the United States. He also criticized the UN Security Council for inaction on Palestine.

    Before the session, Israeli Ambassador to the UN Danny Danon told reporters Hamas has committed a “double war crime” for inciting both Israel and its own people. Danon said Israel regrets every casualty, but the people on the border are a “mob” carrying explosives.
     
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  8. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member
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  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Doubtful. When you have people led by a terrorist government attacking a border wall, you aren't going to get much sympathy no matter how many casualties you take in the attack. I know that's the goal of Hamas, to get enough of their people killed to where people will side with them in their goal to conquer Israel, but it's just not going to happen. There's a group of easy marks that will fall for their tactics, but that's about it.
     
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    No sympathy for Israel?
     
  11. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Women, children and journalists were covert, highly trained Hamas terrorists!!! amirite?
     
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  12. shorerider

    shorerider Member

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    1.8 million refugees who had been displaced as a result of the 1948 conflict, forcibly removed from their homes, taking away their livelihood, forced to live in a 225 square mile slum making it the highest population density on earth, where the poverty rate is 40%, and you are talking about them attempting to be 'conquerers', coming at an advanced army with rocks and rag-tag gangs because their way of life and their homes were stripped from them? I suppose an acceptable solution to this issue would be to just napalm the refugee camps and be done with it? Rather than force them to keep 'living' in that hellhole. That is not living. Hell most of us treat stray dogs with more compassion.

    I believe an acceptable analogy would be to cage a stray dog caught living on some land you just purchased and every day come up and kick the cage, agitate it, then one day feeling a tinge of compassion stick your hand in and try to pet the animal, get bit, wonder why, then feeling rage, bring out a cattle prod to punish it for its aggression.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    You mean like how the Kurds are totally cool with the fact they didn't have a chair when the music stopped. And how Shia and Sunnis aren't at each others' throats all the time. Or how a small Alawite minority doesn't dominate the Arab majority in Syria. The wise colonialists did a great job setting the new order when the Ottoman Empire collapsed, except that the Palestinians couldn't get over their completely irrational hatred for the Jewish Europeans and Russians who moved in and took their land.

    Look, to not be snide, there was a lot of dysfunction borne out from the solution to the dissolution of the probably equally dysfunctional Ottoman Empire. The peoples of this area were very weak at the time, and could not do much to determine their own future. This region is growing stronger now and are still fighting to set their own path, even in the face of constant meddling by foreign powers, mainly American and Russian. The reason why Israel is a special case is not so much that they are Jewish, its because they are non-Muslim colonizers from another part of the planet who came and would not assimilate. They used their position of relative power (relative to early-20th century weakness of the area) and the unitary vision of Zionism to create a distinct society that not only dispossessed local Palestinians, but would not later given them citizenship or civil rights. So, of course Palestinians used violence, of course sympathetic Muslim neighbors (who don't want Palestinians refugees) fought to help them, of course they don't want a Western colony in the middle of the Muslim world, of course they will not say Israel has a right to exist. Israel and its patron the United States are slowing the development of the Middle East in whatever Islamic Civilization vector they are taking, and they handicap the Middle East's self-determination.

    Of course, now with millions of Israelis there, we have an intractable problem. I don't want Israelis slaughtered. Nor do I want them dispossessed. Israel in some fashion should continue to exist. Whatever the injustices they committed to get there, they are there. So some compromise is needed, but Israel and the US hold the cards. The Palestinians have no rights, have no power, have no money or jobs, have no access to markets or foreign aid. The responsibility lies with Israel to do the right thing and find a compromise that they can live with that does justice for the Palestinians. I don't care at all about the terrorism, the intifadas, the burning tires, and whatever. Those are symptoms of the problem they created. I have no sympathy for the Israeli state until they set the plan for a real compromise that does real justice for Palestinians. I cannot accept that they must continue to do evil to others to preserve their own lives and prosperity.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    There's several things wrong with that.

    1. No one told them to attack Israel in 1948

    2. They have chosen many times to remain in Gaza as opposed to being re-settled elsewhere. in fact, any of them that want to leave Gaza can so long as they sign something saying they won't return for at least a year. The reason they remain there in those conditions is a ploy to get the sympathy of easy marks. They punish their own people, they get their own people killed simply to be used as a weapon against Israel. It's pretty obvious.

    3. When I say that the conquest of Israel is their goal, I say so because that's what they say their goal is to "regain the land...even if we have to do so inch by inch" and that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it"

    If the Palestinians cared about their people anywhere near as much as they care about attacking Israel every chance they get, things would be completely different, but they've made it clear time and time again that they simply don't care about their people at all.
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

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    We have spent over $3 trillion in the region since 2001 that we needed for energy security but we are now a major oil and gas producer.

    .... what do we gain from this again? A strategic ally in a region that we can’t win or control?
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

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    Israel is clearly a huge mistake in hindsight. Controlling Jerusalem again was a factor as well in the creation of Israel.

    After WW2, the Jews should have been moved to America or create a Jewish state in a place like Australia. However, Israel was very much a religious issue.
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    1. They were attacked prior to 1948. The fighting didn't start once Israel was formed. There were Palestinian villages that were massacred by the soon to be Israelis before Israel even existed.

    2. hmmmm....

    3. Israel has also said that Palestinians should all be driven into the sea, that they don't have the right to a country, they will never recognize a Palestinian nation etc. Neither side should be making those idiotic comments.
     
  18. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    I do not recall making that comparison. What I do recall was stating that Israel and Palestine were essentially one of many states drawn up from the former Ottoman Empire.

    What I asked was whether there were similar attacks in response to the formation of those states? There were not any similar attacks.
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Why do you think Israel was given Jerusalem in its creation?
     
  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member
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    To help your memory:

    So there's your comparison. So please explain what Ottoman Empire states are like Israel/Palestine? Were there any Ottoman Empire states that had a history of violence (both against the former people and then between warring factions)? Again, you seem to believe there were no violence similar to Israelis/Palestinians. So explain...
     
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