Two questions about cycling

Indurain won 5 yrs in a row from 1991 to 1995. While this is a truly amazing feat, and I don't mean to downplay the true studs that Indurain and Armstrong are: How is this any less or more rare than Track stars dominating for years? Another difference is this competition is once a year, so when you dominate cycling for 4yrs, you actually get crowned for the world to see 4 times. If the Olympics were every year, I'm sure Carl Lewis, Alberto Juantorena (the 400/800 stud Cuban), milers like Jim Ryun would have won 3-5 yrs, and Micheal Johnson would have won like 10yrs in a row.

as for question #2

Do you understand how slip-streaming works...or how geese fly in wing patterns?

 

As an ex. triathlete, I can really appreciate what he's doing. Training, training, and when you get really tired, more training! He must be a real hammer head when he trains...

Short of "drafting", I don't know what else his teammates could be doing.

RR

 

RR,

Lance also mentions how one guy drafts for him and two guys chase down breakaway attempts and "bring them back to the pack." That was their flatland strategy.

 

HP,

They also use that drafting strategy in the mountains, where Lance's teammates go to the front and push the tempo hard, trying to knock the weaker riders off of Lance's wheel. Since he remains in their slipstream up the mountains at a regular tempo that he pretty much dictates, he can conserve energy while the rest fall by the wayside.

As for A-Train's question about why no one can beat Lance Armstrong: they simple don't prepare effectively enough to beat him. He is the most meticulous person in cycling, checking over every last detail of his training, his squad, and the route of the Tour. Thus, he becomes better conditioned and better physically to beat everyone else.

I don't think he's unbeatable - but in the mountains, he looks that way.

 

Carl Lewis has done more amazing things for track than Lance has done for cycling. Lewis was able to dominate in very different types of events for years upon years, while Armstrong has been great at one type of cycling (the all around rider). Eddy Merckxs is comparable to a guy like Lewis, because he would win not only the Yellow jersey for the lowest time, but he would also win the Polka Dot jersey for the best climber, and the Green jersey for the best sprinter. Eddy was so good at dominating every facet of cycling, they nicknamed him "The Cannibal". That said, I would still classify Armstrong at or above the level of the other guys you mentioned, just because it is more difficult to win the Tour de France multiple times, than it is to win a 100m sprint multiple times (because of the probability of crashes, sickness, etc over a 2,000 mile, 3 week race).

If he wins 5, that would put him in a VERY select group of cyclists (I think it has been done by 4 other riders). If he wins 6, that would put him as one of the top 2 riders ever in the sport.

Domestiques also do some of the grunt work during the race like physically surrounding Armstrong so that he is less likely to be taken down in a crash, dropping back to the team's car to collect water and food for the other team members, and also pacing the peleton. If Lance wants to prevent riders from attacking, or if he wants to chase down an attacker, then it is the USPS guys who set the pace of the peleton to do that. If the leader's team out front isn't pushing hard enough, then the other teams will have enough energy to break away from the pack.

 

Luck is in every sport. Jim Ryun lost a mile in the Olympics because he got knocked down. I could argue that Lance gets a chance to recover from bad luck when it happens, whereas track stars like Micheal Johnson get no second chance, like when he failed to qualify twice for the 200m from injury/illness, and in Barcelona. He was a huge favorite for that. He damn sure was going to win both the 200 and 400 in Barcelona, whereas Atlanta would have just been a repeat.

It's all relative. Aren't we talking about domination is individual sports of will-power, training, and talent. All the strategic aspects of Lance winning, also means he can secure a stellar team to keep winning.

Look at Haras staying with Lance and Beloki. I mean, Lance might get beat today if Haras was Beloki's teammate, no?

 

That's true. If it isn't a serious mistake, you can make up for it with a good performance in a later stage. I don't actually know the rate which riders drop out of the race compared to other sports, so I can't truly comment on that. I am always heartbroken to hear about riders who lose time due to stomach problems, flat tires, broken bones, etc. So many things can go wrongf that are completely out of the rider's control.

I haven't read too much about today's stage yet (and I don't have OLN), but I think Beloki benefited every bit as much as Lance did from the work of Heras today. Please correct me if this is not right.

I think it was last year that Armstrong rode behind Telekom because the USPS team was a little beat up. After grimacing for the TV cameras and putting on a little show, he took off and dropped Ullrich.

Could someone explain how Armstrong could be isolated on a climb?

 

I guess the only way would be for his teamates to crack.

I remember watching last years Paris Roubaix. Poor Georgie Hincapie was in the break away group with 5 Domo Farm-Frites riders and without any USPS riders to help . None of them would work with George, they either made him do all the work up front or kept attacking one after another and George was left to fend for himself. Just terrible! He ended up getting 6th place. I really felt for him, but cycling is a team sport and thats how it goes.

 

In theory he should've, yes, but he was really suffering just trying to hold onto Armstrong's wheel, yo-yoing off and on most of the way up the climb. The hard tempo Heras set nearly caused him to crack before the finish, just due to the sheer strength of the push.

Yep - Heras was suffering from tendonitis and Rubiera was the only domestique who could really stick around for very long. Armstrong "bluffed" pain at the back of the pack while Telekom took the race up to the final mountain of the day, where Armstrong sent Rubiera to the front to set a blistering pace that dropped everyone - including Ullrich with that now-infamous look.

If a few of his teammates were to have emchanical or physical problems and another team like Kelme or ONCE went to the front to set tempo, then Armstrong could lose all of his teammates around him and thus be isolated and open to attacks. It's happened before, most notably by Telekom in the past, but it's never had an effect on Lance other than maybe causing him to expend a little more energy controlling the Groupe Maillot Jaune than he would like.

 

I guess that most of my question (since my cycling knowledge comes more from reading than seeing) was about the actual postioning of the riders. It seem like it would take at least 3 riders to isolate an opponent. Two riders would not be able to do it really, since there would only be one rider left after the other attacked. Unless the 3rd guy wasn't paying attention, it would be very difficult for the 1st guy to get much of a jump on him. Is it that hard to attack around 1 guy on a climb?

 

Well, you see it more on flatlands in the classics, especially from Rabobank and Domo-Farm Frites. Typically a team will send a rider up the road in a breakaway (though this doesn't always happen), where they will do no work. As the break is caught, they are there to help their remaining teammates. If there is a numbers advantage over a good rider from a weaker team, like USPS has been in the classics in the past, then two riders can alternate attacking while the other tries to catch them. As they catch them, though, the other teammate sits on the wheel of the opposing rider, forcing them to do a lot of work for no gain. It doesn't necessarily create large gaps, but sets up a win.

In the mountains, it might take three riders...and right now, I don't know that any team is strong enough to do that to Lance. Kelme and ONCE both have 2, but it's tough, like you said, to isolate anyone on a climb with only two riders unless opposing teams start working together - and among the Spanish teams, that's not likely.

 

Thanks. Do you or Oily race?

 

I wish I did!

I just ride my bike around when I get the chance and maybe one day I'll partake in some cycle-touring or local races - though with college, I don't have the time now. I couldn't do any of this mountain stuff, though - I'm bigger by far (6'6" 230) than any of the TdF contenders this year, most of whom are pretty dimunitive.

As for Oily...you'd have to ask him. I just think we both are avid followers of the sport.

 

I used to ride a whith a group and do rides to Katy and all that way back in the day when Lemond won the Tour and Bernard Hinault was the man, YIKES, mid, early 80's!
Someone stole my bike and I never got a new one.

I rediscovered it last year after I decided to start taking care of myself once again. I tried swimming but ya gotta go to the gym and all that. With cycling you just hop on your bike and off you go.
I built my own bike and have since built up 2 more!(1 cyclo-cross Pinarello for the winter and another rode Fuji thats my main bike. Its addicting this bike building stuff)

I don't race or ride with any groups. I know they have a group on Tuesday or Thursdays leaving from Westend Bicycles, but I haven't gone yet. I ride by myself 90% of the time or I may go to S.A. to ride with some buddies there. I generally ride about 25 miles tops during the week. Average around 18-21mph.
I usually limit myself to around 2 hours per ride on the weekend and try and get at least 30 miles on those rides. I could go further, but damn, I got stuff to do!

Its just a fun hobby and its good for your heart and lungs.

 

I ride strictly for fun also. I've got the climbers physique (5'7", 125 lbs) so I do OK here in the hill country, but I often get passed by overweight guys with these huge calves when I'm on flat ground. I put together a Steelman 525 (old school) last year which I love, but I made the mistake of equiping it with Campy hubs that drive me insane with their buzzing on those 45mph descents.... I have every jogger and pedestrian within 100 ft. of me turning around to see what the he** is coming. My next project is to build my own wheels. It will probably be a while since I want to do it with some really nice hubs and rims, which I can't afford right now.

The cyclo-cross sounds awesome. I have never ridden one, but I bet they would be great for taking one of those bicycle tour vacations.

If you are into building bikes, check out this web site. I bought my frame from them new for half of the retail price.

 

I used to have me a nice road bike, but now all I have is a mountain bike. Since I don't live near any trails and the traffic here is pretty bad, I'm stuck to riding around 15mph on the flat terrain, but I can kick it faster for a "sprint" if I needed to. One of these days, though, I want to buy a nice road racing bike...maybe in the winter when I have extra money. And then...maybe lose some of these kilos and improve going uphill!

In any case - I realized why everyone talks about Lance's familiarity with the Col de Portet-D'Aspet when talking about tomorrow's stage 12: his friend and former teammate Fabio Casartelli crashed off the mountain and died during his descent back around 1993. That mountain and this stage are probably the ones he's been aiming at this entire tour (other than Ventoux), so I'd imagine he wants to win and he wants to win alone to salute his former teammate once again.

 

I'd like a chance to answer the question. Raising hand.

 

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