Trump Signs Order to Restrict Refugees from 7 Countries But Not Saudi Arabia

A civil society? What next... a decision to ban Jewish people? Black people? The vagueness of "regulating travel for "concerns about security" reasons" provides this or any future administration to ban anyone. Amazes me that the one country that harbors and supports more terrorism was excluded from the Muslim ban list.

 

Again, keep spinning all you like, but this wasn't a Muslim ban and you'll only make yourself look ridiculous by continuing to insist that it is. If it was a "Muslim ban" the SCOTUS wouldn't have ruled UNANIMOUSLY to reinstate it pending the hearing.

 

I have no problem with this. If the ban is indeed about security, then this should be plenty enough and the lower courts should have ruled this decision instead of making it a political one. This now gives Trump plenty of excuses to continue this on and even expand on it. It was a dangerous play to make this about a Muslim ban instead of a security issue and the Left are losing this one.

This has been one of my biggest concerns about the Left fighting Trump and vastly misrepresenting their arguments. He is not a bumbling idiot. He knows what he is doing. And he's going to get some pretty shitty legislation passed if the Leftists do not learn to compromise and handle Trump wisely.

 

But the ban really is not about security and was political from the start. Trump said he wanted a temporary ban until they could "figure out what is going on" and devise a better system. If it was really about security, the failure of the temporary ban would not have gotten in their way of figuring things out and devising a better system. It has since become obvious that the entirety of the security policy here is the temporary travel ban itself. If you want us to pretend it is a legitimate security measure, it still strikes me as a pretty pitiful one. Even after the fact, I haven't seen any credible analysis that the ban will actually positively impact our security (link 'em if you got 'em!).

I don't think Trump is an idiot. He does lack wisdom though, and does bumble as a result. But what the 'Leftists' do is irrelevant since they don't hold political power anywhere. Trump needs Republicans to cooperate. Since this travel ban is so important, btw, why haven't we seen it in Congress?

 

The **** legislation, I like the way you hedge btw, will be on the Republicans. The left already lost and will continue to lose for at least 3 more years, but keep redirecting anger over the lack of any legislation to the Democrats.

Take a deep breath. There are no Lefties out behind you waiting to take you down.

 

I think the point is that there needs to be an intelligent opposition. It's why in less divisive times divided government often produces the best legislation. If the left keep on picking their battles poorly while using completely over the top rhetoric on just about everything then people will just tune them out even when they actually have a point. They have been crying wolf constantly since the election and it's not healthy.

 

I completely agree Trump used it as a political tool. However he is the one wielding the pen and continues the abuse of EO's as previous administrations have done.

That said, i personally do not have a problem with what the Supreme Court ruled on (I do with Trumps original order) as it is limited to hostile regions and I do think we need to take security seriously. That said, I nor anyone else here knows how well we vet these individuals. I certainly dont believe Clinton claiming we have vetted these people years ago but I also dont believe Trump. Im going to err on the side of caution over worrying about hurting other peoples feelings. Nobody had a problem when Obama did it. Leftists are painting it as a Muslim ban while its very clearly directed at hostile regions.

I think what the Leftist do is very relevant. From the very beginning, they have been trying to paint Trump as a racist, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobic sexist. For a pompous arrogant guy who has been in the public spotlight for decades, some of them being pretty intolerant towards certain groups, I am actually surprised there is not a lot more incidents of such accusations. This is not a defense for Trump. I am only stating how the left are distracting themselves and others from the real issues at hand and how very foolishly going about it. Instead of calling the wall as an act of racism, they should be putting all of that energy into reminding the conservatives the wall is a huge waste of money and there are better ways to secure our borders. People aren't stupid and they know this isn't about racism. All they are doing is antagonizing the right by accusing them of being racists and further entrenching them behind Trump. The same applies with the Muslim ban rhetoric.

 

Yet, the country that the woman came from is NOT in the ban. Neither are the countries that have citizens that have carried out attacks in America. None of these countries have people that have carried out attacks on American soil. The countries Trump does business with are not part of the ban when they should be the targets of one (using Trump's logic).

 

We agree on something: the travel ban does not go far enough.

 

Can't Stop Winning

 

Isn't 1 and 4 a losing record?

 

Your reply would sound more reasonable if these bills Congress are proposing are propositions or referendums that people get to decide upon. In the extreme cases, there might be enough outcry to provoke people to contact their congressmen, but as you alluded to, these times are divisive and both parties are engaged in trench warfare with moderates as collateral. Not revealing the details of the Senate's health bill is another symptom to this sickness on both sides.

Trump's term has been a non-stop cluster**** from the first aborted healthcare bill he pushed but didn't care to read over to the random unforced lies on social media that he doesn't bother to recant.

His use of the bully pulpit is important to your bolded point, but he seems to be throwing enough noise and cover fire for people on both sides to tune out. Most of the outrage stems from Trump's messaging and his chronic inability to stop lying on public record. Is it crying wolf if a republican congress calls for a special prosecutor to investigate Russian collusion? Is it crying wolf if his travel bans have been consistently struck down in Appeals circuits for it unconstitutionality? A lot of these claims are with merit and not calling out the president's meritless claims is normalizing behavior that shouldn't be endemic to the POTUS.

 

@Space Ghost, I agree with you on the politics of it, but I think you give Trump too much credit on the ethics. I think the travel ban really is designed to incite and to benefit from fear and hatred of Muslims. I think his wall is to Mexicans what the ban is to Muslims. And I think Trump really is a racist, bigoted, xenophobic sexist.

But, yeah you never can find any common ground in a negotiation when you call your counter-party a racist, even if they really are. For the professional politicians, it doesn't do them much good to sit on their high horse and look down their noses at the Republicans when it is the Republicans with all the policymaking power. They have consider very carefully their bargaining power. The alternative is a zero-sum game in which the loser gets nothing. Does that go for Joe Blow (D) on the internet talking with Joe the Plumber (R) about what a racist he is for voting for Trump? Maybe. You certainly aren't going to get Joe the Plumber to moderate his position by calling him a racist. But then, what if you don't want to get along?

 

I loled

 

Hey, but we're having fun, right? Hopefully, Trump wins a 2nd term. Then, maybe they'll abolish the amendment that eliminates the 2-term limit, and we can have him a 3rd or 4th time. Our modern-day FDR. DJT! Years and years of that guy. Yippee. America would be so great by then, it would be the most dramatic transformation ever seen in our lifetime. I don't know about you guys, but ever since Trump's been President, I feel America has been much more greater. I used to go to Mount Rushmore and have a "meh" reaction. Now, I look at it in complete, utter awe.

You can feel it on the street, too. People are much more civil and kinder to each other. Patriotic pride is literally bursting at the seams, from what I've been able to see. Trump just has this way of inspiring communities to come together and political parties to unite in a way that I didn't think would be possible. I've counted more than one overseas colleagues congratulating me on the renewed American greatness.

So, I say, let Trump keep doing what he's doing and our lives are going to be so much more enriched. Because winning isn't just everything. It's the only thing.

 

Well yeah, that's crying wolf. The fact that 2 appeals courts would embarrass themselves by playing politics like that is evidence of the problem. They had so little basis for striking down the travel ban that the SCOTUS unanimously agreed that it should go back into effect. You couldn't even find liberal SCOTUS justices to side with those 2 liberal (and politically motivated) appeals courts.

This was a foolish hill to die on and that's my point. Pick the battles better. If you pick foolishly you create an environment where people no longer take you seriously from that point on.

 

What an incredibly simplistic parsing of the SCOTUS opinion. Let's wait till they actually hear the case in fall, mmkay?

 

more like 9-0

 

By then it won't really matter given that the travel ban will have expired by that point. Keeping the ban in place was a sign that they felt there was very little validity to the lower courts stepping in.

 

Its likely they don't want to re-hear the case and probably hope it goes away. While the three extreme right wingers hope to get a chance to extend the law, the others are probably not wanting to be connected to this one. Their decision was probably narrowly focused on whether or not the lower courts should have ruled the way they did and they probably would prefer not to be associated with this kind of ban.