Well which is it, are these the most noble humans in America or are they replaceable? I think it's capitalism that's ranting. I know - just like everyone knows inside - what's right and wrong about this. Soldiers are underpaid, so are teachers. I suppose our morality should conform to the whims of the free market? lol
I think the free market in terms of value of labor cares more about rarity of skillset more so than effort and importance.
People can convince themselves of that, but when you get paid a salary you are renting time for money and your skill compatibility is incidental and largely based on the lottery of where/how you were born. Bottom line is, poor people join the military. That's true in America, and non-America. Now and before and in the future. If anything, it has become more true as powerful people have convinced us that their and their childrens' participation has no bearing on their genuine belief in war. If altruism were heavily involved, the correlation would not be as rigid as it is. Options and environment are the primary driving force no doubt, that is unquestionable if you look at the data.
http://time.com/4984507/donald-trump-mitch-mcconnell-rose-garden-press-conference/ From the transcript of the press conference: Later on in same press conference, the following exchange took place. So his original quote suggested that previous Presidents didn't call (not just Obama). This is pragmatically and demonstratably true. It would be impossible for a President to call every single family member of every fallen soldier in wars where casualty lists were in the thousands. Also, The reporter asks " Earlier, you said that President Obama never called the families of fallen soldiers." This is false. Thus starts the false narrative that Trump claimed Obama never called family members of the fallen. He never specifically singled out Obama only,,,and furthermore, even at this point if you THINK that's what he meant, he further clarified his statement in the same press conference by stating "I don't know if he (Obama) did. No, no, no. I was -- I was told that he didn't often, and a lot of presidents don't. They write letters. This is also pragmatically and demonstratably true. I can provide links of family members who never received calls from Bush and/or Obama. I'm sorry, I don't see anything to be outraged over. I simply disagree with your assertion that Trump was making an effort to disparage anyone. You are free to disagree of course.
I honestly don't know if you are playing stupid. Let's abide by your premise that it's common for the President not to call EVERY KIA Service members' family and that's what Trump meant. I know this. You know this. Everyone knows this. Let's ignore the fact that he explicitly states that they don't make calls period. Not that they don't make every single call. He just flat out stated that they don't make any calls. Now, use some context clues and rational think on WHY he would bring up such an irrelevant statement and why single out his predecessor. Then understand that he made these calls RIGHT AFTER General Kelly told him about how Obama didn't call his son and no to Kelly it wasn't intended to be a criticism because he understood the president can't call every single gold star family especially in a time of war. Trump saw it as a criticism and let's be honest... Another way to one up Obama.
Long before she became a political figure, Ms. Wilson was well known in South Florida for her work with local communities — and for often donning decorative hats. Before joining the House in 2011, Ms. Wilson was a school principal, school board member, state legislator — and also has an elementary school named for her in Miami Gardens, Sergeant Johnson’s hometown. The congresswoman said she has known Sergeant Johnson and his family for years, beginning when, in elementary school, he joined a mentoring program started by Ms. Wilson.
More on Ms. Wilson and her "selflessness" http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/19/k...de-a-ceremony-for-slain-fbi-agents-about-her/
Both duh that’s the point. Just like teachers or special ed workers are underpaid. The free market never pays you based on the nobility of your work. You are crossing your theories. One minute you are talking about a free market and the next you are talking about morality. A free market by nature is going to be amoral in how it pays people[/QUOTE]
You missed the point completely - here's some additional information to help you. _____ Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson's primary identity to the Johnson family isn't as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress. “When I saw the headline that a young man was killed in Niger from Carol City, I thought, ‘My God, please don’t let it be a role model,'" Wilson told Politico. “And it was.” The deceased soldier was an alumnus of the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Project, a mentoring program Wilson started for youths pursuing military careers among other fields. So were his brothers. One received a full scholarship to Bethune Cookman College and the other is training to become a firefighter. Wilson's connection to the family goes back at least one generation. She toldCNN that she was the principal of a school that Johnson's father attended. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-rep-frederica-wilson-and-the-johnson-family/
I think its evident the Congresswoman has a track record of self aggrandizement, and of course a hatred of Trump. Beyond that I don't have an opinion on her "personal relationship" with anyone else.
Ya so you don't care about the mother of the dead soldier as she wanted the congresswomen there as she consoled her because they knew each other. That's less important than a bad political stunt. K. You do know the MOTHER of the dead solider is mimicking the words of the congresswoman in full agreement. Is the mother being political also?
[/QUOTE] There is no both. The most noble humans are not replaceable. Because then they materially wouldn't be the most noble. Teachers are underpaid because their value extends beyond the lifetime of people thinking of income in the next 30-40 years, and because they are not represented well neither collectively nor by their gov't reps. I'm talking about both, not crossing. Very clear: you were describing the free market as if there's some logic to it. There is none, and thus we cannot hitch the wagon of the most noble members of society to it. We can't leave their reward up to the lottery, we must pay them the costs I described. They should not be expected to have to compete in the market game for basic necessities (food, shelter, health, education) anymore. Those things have to be secured for them, and they should piss it away if they so choose. Shorter version: I'm - and most humans on planet earth are - unwilling to accept that the people who specialize in child brain development are replaceable and accurately valued today. I'm politely exiting here because I'm breaking my own D&D time restriction (not for lack of interest in continuing!). This conversation is clearly headed towards: is the free market efficient, or is it not? And my thoughts on that are: until proof exists it is efficient, it's nothing but our new generation's religion. The new islam. With its books. With its myths. With its imams and prophets. With its misinterpreted founder. With its warped interpretation. Symbols, sermons, martyrs, soldiers, materialism, power plays. Same thing. I didn't ditch one religion to join another. I know the signs that it's a religion. No one is pumping money into promoting the theory of gravity, you know what I mean?
There is no both. The most noble humans are not replaceable. Because then they materially wouldn't be the most noble. Teachers are underpaid because their value extends beyond the lifetime of people thinking of income in the next 30-40 years, and because they are not represented well neither collectively nor by their gov't reps. I'm talking about both, not crossing. Very clear: you were describing the free market as if there's some logic to it. There is none, and thus we cannot hitch the wagon of the most noble members of society to it. We can't leave their reward up to the lottery, we must pay them the costs I described. They should not be expected to have to compete in the market game for basic necessities (food, shelter, health, education) anymore. Those things have to be secured for them, and they should piss it away if they so choose. Shorter version: I'm - and most humans on planet earth are - unwilling to accept that the people who specialize in child brain development are replaceable and accurately valued today. I'm politely exiting here because I'm breaking my own D&D time restriction (not for lack of interest in continuing!). This conversation is clearly headed towards: is the free market efficient, or is it not? And my thoughts on that are: until proof exists it is efficient, it's nothing but our new generation's religion. The new islam. With its books. With its myths. With its imams and prophets. With its misinterpreted founder. With its warped interpretation. Symbols, sermons, martyrs, soldiers, materialism, power plays. Same thing. I didn't ditch one religion to join another. I know the signs that it's a religion. No one is pumping money into promoting the theory of gravity, you know what I mean?[/QUOTE] It's lame to make a post and then exit. I never once in this thread defended the free market. You suggested that if the free market worked it would pay these people more. My point is that the free market doesn't pay you on your value to society, it pays you based on your skill specialization and your replace ability. Whether that's efficient or not is for another conversation. Fact remains that we accept a certain level of education and the skills required for someone to be a teacher in this country are very small. Same with soldiers.
There is no both. The most noble humans are not replaceable. Because then they materially wouldn't be the most noble. Teachers are underpaid because their value extends beyond the lifetime of people thinking of income in the next 30-40 years, and because they are not represented well neither collectively nor by their gov't reps. I'm talking about both, not crossing. Very clear: you were describing the free market as if there's some logic to it. There is none, and thus we cannot hitch the wagon of the most noble members of society to it. We can't leave their reward up to the lottery, we must pay them the costs I described. They should not be expected to have to compete in the market game for basic necessities (food, shelter, health, education) anymore. Those things have to be secured for them, and they should piss it away if they so choose. Shorter version: I'm - and most humans on planet earth are - unwilling to accept that the people who specialize in child brain development are replaceable and accurately valued today. I'm politely exiting here because I'm breaking my own D&D time restriction (not for lack of interest in continuing!). This conversation is clearly headed towards: is the free market efficient, or is it not? And my thoughts on that are: until proof exists it is efficient, it's nothing but our new generation's religion. The new islam. With its books. With its myths. With its imams and prophets. With its misinterpreted founder. With its warped interpretation. Symbols, sermons, martyrs, soldiers, materialism, power plays. Same thing. I didn't ditch one religion to join another. I know the signs that it's a religion. No one is pumping money into promoting the theory of gravity, you know what I mean?[/QUOTE] It's lame to make a post and then exit. I never once in this thread defended the free market. You suggested that if the free market worked it would pay these people more. My point is that the free market doesn't pay you on your value to society, it pays you based on your skill specialization and your replace ability. Whether that's efficient or not is for another conversation. Fact remains that we accept a certain level of education and the skills required for someone to be a teacher in this country are very small. Same with soldiers.
